MS2 Setup Help

[1988GTU]

what kind of plugs are in the motor?

[carbon]

Yout talked about editing the VE table... have you looked at AE settings as well as your TPSdot and MAPdot?

MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning

I don't think I'd throw out the baby with the bathwater quite yet. I don't believe that I've ever read anywhere about MS being inherently unreliable.

Also, I know you just tore the top end apart to do gaskets, but did you also clean the IAC and you're sure it's not binding or getting stuck at different points?

GM IAC problem

If you just had MS move the pintle to keep the idle at a specific RPM and you and something like a vacuum leak causing the idle to be high, the MS would just drive the IAC trying to fix it until it burned up the stepper motor...

[Maverick H1L]

It's the fuel pump, for one thing... It's been making weird noises and today I noticed that the engine speed varies with the pump noises. I have a new pump coming but it is going to be a while before it gets here (yay, another cheapo Chinese pump, but at least it should get me going again). The fuel pressure seems to be decent but the flow is apparently lacking, which seems to be causing a lean condition above 2000 RPM.

IAC is as clean as a baby's butt along with the passages in the TB. I don't have EGR flow, period. The EGR transfer tube is merely welded to the outside of the #2 primary (PaceSetter 2.8 RWD F-body headers have EGR on the passenger's side which has been cut off and plugged) and the passage in the intake plenum has been plugged.

The primary problem I'm having with the MSII is that I can never get it to run the same twice in a row. I can have the engine running pretty much perfectly one minute as I run around the block, come home, shut the engine off, go inside for an hour, and the engine will run different when I go to go to work. It makes no sense at all, having to literally reset the upper end of the IAC step table AND start counts every single time I go to start the engine. It's also got a hole (mild drop-out) between stabbing the go pedal and the engine speed picking up like it's supposed to, and every adjustment I've made to the AE doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever.

I no longer have vacuum leaks. I have resealed the top end completely, all new gaskets, and all new injector o-rings. All unused vacuum ports have been plugged. The hoses I have running to my charcoal canister have plugs in them so there isn't any vacuum leak there. The vacuum switch for my HVAC doesn't leak. My intake pressures are between 28 and 32 kPa (depending on how much WUE there is, 32 when cold and ~28 when hot) at idle. I've had it lower during cruise, but not by much.

[90BlueZ]

Two things: Make sure that your IAT doesn't get heat soaked (it's easy to check, check the IAT temp when you shut it down, and check it again before you start it, shouldn't have increased much).

Injectors dead time is also important to be right for consistent operation.

[Maverick H1L]

I have yet to see the IAT temps go above about 95*. With my intake exposed to the hot summer sun (3rd gen Camaro dual snorkel fuel injected intake plumbing). And IAT correction is disabled (flatlined at 0).

I forgot to list that the plugs I'm using are copper R44LTSM6 plugs. I haven't had any issues with ignition yet after I finally got the 7x situation figured out (that's a whole other story that the bottom line was TCE screwed up bad). I'm also running 8.5mm plug wires routed well away from heat sources (except I wish that the 2,4,6 wires were a LOT shorter).

The replacement pump is supposed to be here at some point next week, but knowing Chinese shipping, I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Guest]

Two things: Make sure that your IAT doesn't get heat soaked (it's easy to check, check the IAT temp when you shut it down, and check it again before you start it, shouldn't have increased much).

Injectors dead time is also important to be right for consistent operation.

That's not necessarily the sensor getting heat soaked, it is more likely that the intake is heat soaked, especially when using an open element style. I've found that an open element even when placed into an intake manifold that is directly above (And even touching) an exhaust manifold (Nissan I6), the IAT temps will change rapidly, indicating that the air temp is actually changing rapidly.

I have also found that even if the IAT temps have increased significantly (I've seen 165+* on some restarts), the temp will drop rapidly, due to fresh cool air being brought into the intake and cooling the manifold itself off.

I really don't understand why people are so worried about seeing low intake temps when it may not be what the engine is actually seeing.

[Maverick H1L]

Well, today was like Christmas...

I got a new tire Friday and paired it with the spare I had in the garage. I had both of them mounted and went home after work. And put them on the car before going inside...

To find my fuel pump had arrived AFTER 3 WEEKS. Funny thing is that I ordered the thing on the 31st and they didn't ship it until the 11th (as shown on the FedEx shipping label printed in China). AFTER I messaged them on the 9th asking why in the (bleep) I hadn't gotten a shipping notice or tracking number yet.

New fuel pump sounds almost as bad as the first, but it seems to be working, for now. Had to clean the fuel filter too (yay, cleanable fuel filter ). Also had to take out the fuel I had added to the VE table when I was trying to counteract the bad fuel pump I didn't realize was as bad as it was.

What's funny now is that the knock counts has been in the 10 range (average of about 10.4), pulling about 10* of timing. Now they're down in the 3 range...

I'm going to try to take the car to work in the morning to see if it behaves.

[Maverick H1L]

Well, everything went okay this morning. Had to make some tweaks to the VE table.

And we've come full circle back to the stupid 40% increase in idle PW when started hot. When the engine starts hot, the MSII sets the injector PW over 2.0 ms (around 2.7). However, open the throttle to even 2% and the injector PW drops DOWN to the level it should be at and the manifold pressure ends up where it's supposed to be (around 1.7 ms PW and 30 kPa pressure). Adjusting the IAC does nothing. Parts do NOT change. No adjustments period. Shut engine off and restart and the idle PW goes up 40%. Makes no sense to me and it's driving me nuts!

Yes, I know I need to get a new datalog.

When I shut it off a couple hours ago:
MAT 57* (probably due to hood being closed)
Idle PW ~2.7 ms
CTS 192*F (coolant fan had just shut off)
I have the WUE monitored as a gauge on the home screen... WUE 100% (no enrich)
TPS 0% (finally fixed that!)
MAF 4 gm/sec
MAP 48.2 kPa
O2S 0.01V (idle)
Volts 13.9
Spark advance 23.8 deg
Knock counts and retard 3.6 cts/deg retard

Idle PW should be around 1.6/1.7 ms resulting in a 28/29 kPa manifold pressure... Timing doesn't really change but that's due to knock counts (I need to do something with the exhaust because the rear intermediate pipe hanger is right against part of the body). Funny part is that the second I get on the gas from idle when under a hot start the PW drops along with the intake pressure.

[carbon]

Have you posted any of this on the MSEFI boards or contacted DIYAutoTune from the first page?

If adjusting the IAC does, it nothing says to me there is something wrong with the stepper motor drivers on the board or your IAC motor.

And if you are running MAF why are all your tuning comments about MAP readings? Is it a blended setup? Perhaps get it running in Speed/Density and then screw around with MAF?

[Maverick H1L]

I'm running a MAF/MAP system. Turning either off makes things go very badly. It's a Ford MAF and usually reads about 5 gm/sec at idle. The MAF readings generally don't change but the kPa does.

I have a thread going on the MSEFI forums but they're no help at all. Mostly all I can get there is talking to myself and "put up a datalog", which I have done and they do nothing with.

More and more I'm convinced this is a MSII firmware issue, and I can't find a version 2.8x (I think I was running 2.88 or something a couple months ago) to revert to.

Dropping WUE to 0 even when I should be using it does NOTHING.
Disabling AE does nothing.
Pulling 20-40 points out of the VE table, when malfunctioning, makes the problem WORSE.
The change in MAP pressure is a RESULT of the malfunction, not part of it.
The injector PW DROPS with the throttle opened more than 6% except above slightly more than that. Once the accelerator is released to drop the TPS% below 6%, the injector PW INCREASES.

I will also make a new thread on MSEFI and post up the above.

[Maverick H1L]

Well, I turned the MAF off... Doesn't seem to be making much of a difference whether it's on or not. Turning the MAP off results in a dead system.

I can get the engine to run hot IF...

1. I take about 65-80 IAC steps OUT of the settings table when the table has already been set when the engine is cold.
2. I have my foot on the go pedal to about 5-6% when starting for about 3-5 seconds otherwise the engine acts like it's getting too much fuel and chokes out.

Notes:
1. Changing the IAC table will result in a ridiculously high idle when started cold... Currently at 190 steps for about 1100 RPM when hot and I had it set at about 265 for starting the engine cold and letting it warm up to operating temp.
2. Changing ANY tables doesn't help.

Also, considering my engine idles at about 28-29 kPa, what would be a decent intake pressure when cruising? 48 seems a little high...

I also found and downloaded MSII firmware v2.89... Haven't written it to the MS yet...

I did manage to go for a bit of a drive today and get a couple 30-foot one-tire burnouts while turning corners .

[carbon]

Have you ever used one of the stimulator kits with your MS to verify that the inputs and outputs work correctly? I can understand why you're frustrated...

[Maverick H1L]

I have the JimStim and I used it before I even bought the car that the MS is installed in. Everything works fine. It seems to be a glitch in the software in the MS that seems to be causing the issues. The IAC IS working, but, like I said on the MSefi forum, it's almost like the MS software wants to have a separate starting temp vs IAC steps and VE adder table.

I'm also having a horrible drop out in power between 3rd and 4th gears if I get into the gas rather heavy... It's almost like the engine shuts off for almost 2 seconds before picking up again (shift gears, get into the gas, engine goes quiet and then VRROOOM). I think it has to do with the AE not being set...

:edit: And I currently have my MAF turned off since it seems the MS doesn't care one way or the other if it's on or not, but turning the MAP off results in instant no-run.

[dskopek]

If you want to PM me the current program you have in MS and I will load it up in my 3.4 and see if I have the same problems. I can also look over the program and see if anything sticks out. Maybe we can find some somple thing!

[Maverick H1L]

If you want to PM me the current program you have in MS and I will load it up in my 3.4 and see if I have the same problems. I can also look over the program and see if anything sticks out. Maybe we can find some somple thing!

I need to try a couple of things tomorrow and see what happens. I'm going to tweak the leading end of the VE table to try to correct the hot starts and then tweak the AE stuff and try to get rid of the drop out. Is your 3.4 remotely close to my high-compression 3.1/3100 hybrid?