The 60 degree family tree

[geoffinbc]

There are NO Iron heads with splayed valves. Nor were there any Aluminum head engine is Isuzu's. Yes the Isuzu did have a 3.1L it was the same engine as the lumina had. 125 HP

Yes the 660 Was dropped in 94 for the S-10. I got that in there. tThe 4.3L Vortec engine came out in 92 for the s-10

Im not sure about the 3.1L's having cast oil pans. You may be right.

[DubTee1480]

Thanks for the camaro facts. Do you know when the belt systems changed? When did it recieve an electric fan?

The Camaro 2.8 went from 2bbl carb to MPFI in 85. Changeover from clutch driven fan to electric fan was also the same year. The 84 2.8 was strictly vee belt. 85 model year still carried vee belts with an option for 2 seperate serpentine belts (idk if this was actually a check-box option or a regional thing). In 86 they received a single serpentine belt to drive all accessories.

[geoffinbc]

Sweet just what I was looking for

[geoffinbc]

Im having a bitch of a time seeing the page formatted, re: the dustbuster (apv vans) the 3.1 using in it went splayed AL heads 91- (and 3.4 later, with 3.8 option) but it used TBI and a dist - with a different crank that will not work in a t-code so you have to be sure where those motors came from

Yes there were 3.1L vans with aluminum heads but they used MPFI. There was also a TBI engine but it used iron heads.
But there was never a TBI with aluminum heads.

Cranks were the same. Since MPFI came out they were all cast with reluctor wheels. The reluctor wheel gives the crank enough mass to be internally balanced. When the 3.1L crank came out they were still all the same cranks (with an increased stroke) and they are all cross compatible.

[DubTee1480]

But there was never a TBI with aluminum heads.

I know, one of my friends thought that my truck had aluminum head b/c of its year, got me all excited. The only change in cranks should have been the old RWD 2.8 that was externally balanced at the flywheel, but I can't imagine a FWD car having that engine. Can't remember what year the changover occured, 87 I think, you can check one of the 3.4 swap pages on .org though.

[quaddriver]

Cranks were the same. Since MPFI came out they were all cast with reluctor wheels. The reluctor wheel gives the crank enough mass to be internally balanced. When the 3.1L crank came out they were still all the same cranks (with an increased stroke) and they are all cross compatible.

NONONONONO!!!!! this is a horrid mistake a number of rebuilders make.

the Van 3,1 up to AT LEAST 95 was TBI and used a dist.

->>>

Bulletins for 1995 Chevy Truck Lumina APV V6-191 3.1L VIN D TBI

(Im not allowed by membership rules to post the TSBs outside)

the cranks however, and this is where it gets ugly, had the IDENTICAL CAST NUMBER on it (short number "981"), BUT, cranks for MPFI motors had 7 1/4"ish wide notches cut appx 1/8"ish deep in the reluctor wheel, 6 were evenly spaced and would be at the crank sensor in the back of the block for 30?* BTDC on each hole, cept before #1 appx 30* of rotation the 7th 'slot' was the sync pulse for the DIS. On cranks that were originally in TBI motors - there are NO SLOTS CUT IN THE WHEEL.

If you install a van crank in a non-van motor (i.e. DIS, not TBI) it will not start - ever ever ever.

The TBI motor, since it used a distributor, used GMs off the shelf EST system and hence got its timing and sync pulses from the shaft mounted reluctor.

When you rebuild a gen2 3.1, or get a gen2 short/long block from a boneyard, you have to make sure of its pedigree. From a boneyard, a plugged crank sensor hole means van. BUT, if the plug is not there then the owner might have thought it was a coolant drain. And, the 981 crank was also used in gen3 M codes up till at least 95, so the same problem exists

Im looking at the s10 2.8, but im pretty sure those are big valve iron heads (884 cast?)

[SappySE107]

10146900 = crank part number for 91 APV and 95 APV
10146900 = crank part number for 91 3.1 Lumina

Maybe stock they didnt have it cut but if you get them from GM now, they all use the same crank with the notches cut for DIS. Id have to see a stock crank to believe it didnt have the notches cut out.

[quaddriver]

10146900 = crank part number for 91 APV and 95 APV
10146900 = crank part number for 91 3.1 Lumina

Maybe stock they didnt have it cut but if you get them from GM now, they all use the same crank with the notches cut for DIS. Id have to see a stock crank to believe it didnt have the notches cut out.

Dont have any pics of the last one I did, but here is a list of the reman motors you can get: (have no idea how this will look)

89-91 189 3.1 T GM Chevrolet, FWD, FI, Aluminum Heads, Trigger Fire, Flat Tappet, May have Fuel Pump Hole--But is not used, Passenger, W/O Det. Sensor. (Not For T.P.I.), (Late '91 could be 1897.1-check block casting #'s). $1,349 $425
90-92 189 3.1 T,Z GM Chevrolet, RWD, MFI, Cast Iron Heads, Passenger side starter, Flat Tappet, May have Fuel Pump Hole--But is not used, Camaro, Firebird. (Not For T.P.I.) $1,349 $350
90-93 189 3.1 D,Z GM Chevrolet, FWD, T.B.I., APV Van, Cast Iron Heads, W/O Trigger Fire Ignition, Has Center Reluctor Ring W/ or W/O Notches, May have Fuel Pump Hole-But is not used, Not Trigger Fire, V6 Trooper, Rodeo, Driver side starter. (Not For T.P.I.) $1,289 $300
91-94 189 3.1 D GM Chevrolet, FWD, T.B.I., APV Van, Cast Iron Heads, Flat Tappet, Has Extra Ribbing In The Lifter Valley (Do Not Interchange With '90 Block, Intake Will Not Fit), Has Center Reluctor Ring, W/ or W/O Notch on crank, Not Trigger Fire. (Not For T.P.I.) $1,289 $350
91-94 189 3.1 T GM Chevrolet, FWD, FI, Passenger, Flat Tappet, Trigger Fire, Aluminum Heads. Must Have Fuel Pump shut-off top rear of block, (Not For T.P.I.), ('91 could be a 1892.1-get block casting #'s). $1,329 $425
93-95 189 3.1 M GM Chevrolet, Cross bolt mains, Lumina, Beretta, Corsica, Monte Carlo, roller, aluminum heads, trigger fire, cam sensor, FWD, (Not For T.P.I.) $1,349 $425
96-99 189 3.1 M GM Chevrolet, Enhanced 3100, Cross bolt mains, roller, aluminum heads, W/Roller Rockers, aluminum pan, trigger fire, cam sensor, FWD. (Not For T.P.I.) $1,559 $425
94-95 189 3.1 D GM Chevrolet, FWD, T.B.I., APV Van, Cast Iron Heads, W/O Trigger Fire Ignition, Has Center Reluctor Ring W/ or W/O Notches, May have Fuel Pump Hole-But is not used, Not Trigger Fire, V6 Trooper, Rodeo, Driver side starter. (Not For T.P.I.) $1,309 $350

I have yet to ever see notches in a tbi motor, so if the rebuilders are seeing them, its likely that the motor had crank work during its life before it became a core they used.

[v6h.o.]

this is still up in the air, but id say in 96 the 3100/3400 heads got notched rocker arm stud holes, and roller fulcrum rocker arms. In 96 i know they used aluminum valve covers, not sure about 95. There were quite a few differences with the 3100 v.s. 3.1, not sure how many you want to list.. main ones being introduction of powder metal cross bolted main caps, cast aluminum oil pan, and a windage tray.

93 3.1s had cast oil pans also, I think this change came 92/93 cause I was just under a 92 corsica 3.1 w/stamped

ONLY the GEN3 3100/3400 has ever had a Cast pan. all gen2's were stamped steel. your getting things confused here.

a select few vehicles had 3100's in them in 93, but 94 was the large change over year with all but the Jbodies getting the Gen3 engines. therefore yes they changed to a cast pan, but it wasnt the 3.1L.

[v6h.o.]

there are notches in the 3.1L TBI crank i have seen them before.

[Anonymous]

ONLY the GEN3 3100/3400 has ever had a Cast pan. all gen2's were stamped steel. your getting things confused here.

a select few vehicles had 3100's in them in 93, but 94 was the large change over year with all but the Jbodies getting the Gen3 engines. therefore yes they changed to a cast pan, but it wasnt the 3.1L.

Don't forget the Lumina, didn't they keep the old 3.1 and thus the stamped steel pan for 1994?

[SappySE107]

yeah, the chevy cars got the left overs.

"91-94 189 3.1 D GM Chevrolet, FWD, T.B.I., APV Van, Cast Iron Heads, Flat Tappet, Has Extra Ribbing In The Lifter Valley (Do Not Interchange With '90 Block, Intake Will Not Fit),"

I want to know what the 90 block has to do with anything for the intake not fitting.

[geoffinbc]

yeah, the chevy cars got the left overs.

"91-94 189 3.1 D GM Chevrolet, FWD, T.B.I., APV Van, Cast Iron Heads, Flat Tappet, Has Extra Ribbing In The Lifter Valley (Do Not Interchange With '90 Block, Intake Will Not Fit),"

I want to know what the 90 block has to do with anything for the intake not fitting.

There is an oil sheild that covers the EGR passages in a TBI intake on the underside of the intake. If there were ribs in the lifter gally they would probabally contact.

NONONONONO!!!!! this is a horrid mistake a number of rebuilders make.

the Van 3,1 up to AT LEAST 95 was TBI and used a dist.

Ok I see what you are getting at. Yes the crank will not work if there is no notches in the reluctor wheel. But just about every crank still has them. I think my 2.8L did

[quaddriver]

ONLY the GEN3 3100/3400 has ever had a Cast pan. all gen2's were stamped steel. your getting things confused here.

a select few vehicles had 3100's in them in 93, but 94 was the large change over year with all but the Jbodies getting the Gen3 engines. therefore yes they changed to a cast pan, but it wasnt the 3.1L.

Nope, I owned one, from the dealer, from the factory, purchased 4/93, and it wasnt a 3100, it was a 3.1 vin T

[Guest]

ONLY the GEN3 3100/3400 has ever had a Cast pan. all gen2's were stamped steel. your getting things confused here.

a select few vehicles had 3100's in them in 93, but 94 was the large change over year with all but the Jbodies getting the Gen3 engines. therefore yes they changed to a cast pan, but it wasnt the 3.1L.

Nope, I owned one, from the dealer, from the factory, purchased 4/93, and it wasnt a 3100, it was a 3.1 vin T

I have to agree with Colin on this one, genIII was the change over to a cast pan.