electric "wet-sump" hybrid oiling system

[Driver_10]

This is an idea that I had...


The pic is sort of crude, but you get the general idea.

Much like a dry-sump oiling systems, a pump would be used to pull oil from the oil-pan into a reservoir. Unlike a dry-sump system, the oil-reservoir would directly supply the oil pick-up tube via gravity feed.

This system is an idea that I came up with to help increase the engine oil holding capacity of the system while "air-proofing" the oil pick-up tube at hard stops and turns.

The electric oil-pump DOES NOT supply high pressure oil to the lubrication system and is only there to fill the reservoir.

Its something that I may try, but I would like some feedback before trying anything like this.

[robertisaar]

ever considered using an accumulator?

also, sounds like you're building a scavenge pump. should work quite well IMO.

[WrathOfSocrus]

Honestly I think it would be better to have the oil pan modified for a larger capacity and add more baffles. If you are set on the idea of the electric pump then I would just have it pump from the pan to the reservoir and back. Have a loop separate from the engine pump. Then you could add a second filter or a cooler as well as increase capacity. If you have it pulling oil from a point higher than the oil pump pickup, it will leave you with a little safety should something go wrong like a hose pop off or a power issue with the electric pump. It would allow the engine to have a little oil to work with instead of nothing. If the engine oil pump solely relies on the new system then it is completely at its mercy.

[geoffinbc]

It takes a fair amount of power to move oil. I may take some serious current draw to power a pump that will keep the reservoir full. Also as the engine speeds up the demand increases. Low RPM driving your system may work but sustained high RPM driving may drain the reservoir and starve the oil pump.

I agree that using an accumulator would provide the protection you want at a lower cost and in a simpler package. Or simply go to a dry sump setup. There are plenty of used pumps on e-bay. Find a pump with 2 scavenge sections and one pressure section. A good dry sump system also acts as a crank case evac system and can improve power and engine sealing.

[Driver_10]

Im not so much dead set on using an electric scavenging pump as much as I am intrigued with the idea. As for the current draw, Ive seen a 12v "gear-to-gear" electric scavenging pump that will move 2-3gpm at less than 10 amps assuming that there is no significant restriction.

Im not entirely sure how much oil an engine will move at full tilt, but I wouldn't think that it would exceed 2gpm considering the restrictive nature of oil-flow in an engine.

[Driver_10]

Another fringe benefit would be the fact that oil is constantly cooled and filtered by the endless recirculating action of the pump (if you used an oil cooler inline to the accumulator tank) in addition to the engine's own filtration system. There also may be some spare horses freed up by the lack of an additional belt-drive as well.

The only snag is the fact that the lubrication system would be totally at the mercy of the fitness of the oil-pump... Im sure that a level switch and warning light would be in order to safeguard against an untimely electric pump failure.

A well built electric scavenging pump has a max lifespan of around 10,000 hours. I dont know if the lifespan of the average mechanical pump is any more or less than this.

[robertisaar]

assuming a 45MPH average, that's 450,000 miles.... a bit on the high side, i think.

[Driver_10]

I re-tweaked the concept to deal with some of the underlining problems

[geoffinbc]

Im not so much dead set on using an electric scavenging pump as much as I am intrigued with the idea. As for the current draw, Ive seen a 12v "gear-to-gear" electric scavenging pump that will move 2-3gpm at less than 10 amps assuming that there is no significant restriction.

Im not entirely sure how much oil an engine will move at full tilt, but I wouldn't think that it would exceed 2gpm considering the restrictive nature of oil-flow in an engine.

Well a Small Block requires at least 6gpm to stay happy so I would expect our engines to be just slightly less.

Also remember that with all this electric pump talk it will take just as much power to turn as a belt driven pump. Since this pump must run all the time this will not be a power saving exercise like you would get with an electric fan versus a belt driven one. With the risk involved in an electric pump failing in your oil system I would be looking at alternatives. Take a fuel pump for example. They fail out of the blue all the time when least expected. But in the case of a fuel pump your car simply wont start if this scavenge pump fails and you don't notice then your whole engine could be toast.

[Mars]

Is this a weak point of these motors ? Oil starvation when turning and stopping ? I never heard of this or noticed anything myself...

Seems like a waste of time and resources to me, unless you know of people having issues ?

If you're worried about oil capacity, just change it a bit more often, no ?

Don't mean to shit on your parade or anything.

[geoffinbc]

Is this a weak point of these motors ? Oil starvation when turning and stopping ? I never heard of this or noticed anything myself...

Seems like a waste of time and resources to me, unless you know of people having issues ?

If you're worried about oil capacity, just change it a bit more often, no ?

Don't mean to shit on your parade or anything.

/
I agree there is no issue on a daily driver. But if this guy is racing he may want a little insurance. But they already make accumulators to solve oil starvation issues which is where I would be spending my hard earned money. I hate to reinvent the wheel unless I have to.

[Driver_10]

Is this a weak point of these motors ? Oil starvation when turning and stopping ? I never heard of this or noticed anything myself...

Seems like a waste of time and resources to me, unless you know of people having issues ?

If you're worried about oil capacity, just change it a bit more often, no ?

Don't mean to shit on your parade or anything.

Your absolutely right...It wouldn't be an issue on a daily driven car, but would become a problem for a car sustaining high rpms on a closed circuit for a weekend. Thats the reason I though about the idea.

/
I agree there is no issue on a daily driver. But if this guy is racing he may want a little insurance. But they already make accumulators to solve oil starvation issues which is where I would be spending my hard earned money. I hate to reinvent the wheel unless I have to.

This man deserves a cookie . Couldn't have said it better myself. That's why I'm trying to see if this idea is even worth pursuing.

[Dave96z34]

Worst idea electric motor ever fails in any way you blow your engine. This is why race cars don't have that. They have a dry sump oil pumps for a reason. As mars says if you don't have a reason why would you reinvent the wheel.

[bob442]

i wouldnt ever trust a electric pump for my oiling system, unless you invest in a 200$ gauge with a low pressure shut down switch

[robertisaar]

i wouldnt ever trust a electric pump for my oiling system, unless you invest in a 200$ gauge with a low pressure shut down switch

pull the fuel pump relay and drive the pump off of only the oil pressure switch. when the pressure drops to 4 PSI or so, fuel pump is cut.