OMG My Engine is Toast

[silvergtjrad]

was the entire valve stem still on the valve? If it is, there is no way that it could completely turn upside down like that.

[john_V63400]

IDK I will have to check it out more on monday.

[zofo61]

Shane.......I think this "Mechanic" is an incompetant fraud.............You should photo document EVERYTHING and ....yes....maybe see a Lawyer..........got anyone in the family that practices Law...........the Dyno Tune place you took your car as well should be notified of pending litigation as they didnt do you any service as well.

[AaronGTR]

John, get off the high horse and let us get the complete lowdown on your complete set-up.

I hate to break the news to you, but you are in the same boat as me. I rebuilt my engine TWICE before I realized that detonation was the culprit. You have to remember that your ECM is going to autamatically pull timing with detonation, thereby masking it.

You have a 1BAR MAP, this means that your ECM can only read potentially up to 14.7PSI ABSOLUTE PRESSURE! That is one atmosphere at sea level, when you add boost over 0PSIG (guage pressure) your ECM is no longer adding fuel to compensate. You would have been better off raising your FP then trying to tune when you can't read past 0PSIG (stock MAP's actually can't read that accurately even). It sounds like you were tuning for RPM only in your BIN files, but who am I?

Those pistons in your car in the pics look like they have at least 20k miles on them, how do I know - because I have had more than one 660 completely apart and can see th wear patterns of these motors (especially gen1's).

You had detonation causing one of the cylinders to detonate, in turn causing your failure. I have been in the same boat as you, but my car could be heard in the kitchen while my wife ws doing dishes, from down the road. I got home with a running/knocking engine and she simply says to me "That didn't sound too good" in an innocent fassion.

I'm not going to sit here and flame you, but it's your own mistake - so take it like a man and get back on the horse with the newfound data you have obtained from your experience, and do it right this time.

If I were you, I would kick your "mechanic" to the curb and start collecting some tools to do the job the only way it's goin to be right - "By yourself".

My $.02 take it of leave it, but if you think you are going to now turbo another stock motor and be any fast, you are fooling yourself. Another motor is going to bite the dust if improper tuning is an issue.

I couldn't agree more!!!

Same as everyone else has already said and we have already told you multiple times. You can NOT tune fuel properly under boost with a 1bar map and no maf sensor. At best you can "band aid" it, but it still won't be safe. Just as spruce said running on the dyno in a single gear and running on the street with shifting is two different things and the engine will react differently depending on what is in the pcm.

I can't really see how you say you did everything right. You should have got the larger MAF and got it installed before the car ever hit the dyno and definitely before doing any WOT pulls and shifts on the street. 28lb/hr injectors are also way too small for 13psi of boost so you should have been running at least 42lb injectors. And you said your timing chain had a bunch of slack in it... so why did you run the engine like that? You should have installed a new chain and damper with the rebuild, or if they were new, then there was obviously another problem that should have been diagnosed and fixed long before the engine was ever fired.

As stated above, you need to learn how to do as much to your own engine as possible so you can make sure it's done right, or at least so that if you have someone else working on the car you know enough to know if they are competent or full of s*!t. And you need to LISTEN to people who've already been thru the same situations, and not be so impatient. If you don't have the right parts installed yet... DON'T DRIVE THE DAMN CAR!

[john_V63400]

I couldn't agree more!!!

Same as everyone else has already said and we have already told you multiple times. You can NOT tune fuel properly under boost with a 1bar map and no maf sensor. At best you can "band aid" it, but it still won't be safe. Just as spruce said running on the dyno in a single gear and running on the street with shifting is two different things and the engine will react differently depending on what is in the pcm.

I can't really see how you say you did everything right. You should have got the larger MAF and got it installed before the car ever hit the dyno and definitely before doing any WOT pulls and shifts on the street. 28lb/hr injectors are also way too small for 13psi of boost so you should have been running at least 42lb injectors. And you said your timing chain had a bunch of slack in it... so why did you run the engine like that? You should have installed a new chain and damper with the rebuild, or if they were new, then there was obviously another problem that should have been diagnosed and fixed long before the engine was ever fired.

As stated above, you need to learn how to do as much to your own engine as possible so you can make sure it's done right, or at least so that if you have someone else working on the car you know enough to know if they are competent or full of s*!t. And you need to LISTEN to people who've already been thru the same situations, and not be so impatient. If you don't have the right parts installed yet... DON'T DRIVE THE DAMN CAR!

The timing chain had slack after i blew the engine wich led me to believe that the chain skipped so bad that it threw my valves into my pistons wich led to the catstrophic self inflicted damaged i caused.

[Joseph Upson]

Life is full of surprises especially when assumptions are made. I have an uncle that's a pretty good mechanic, and so is my father. After a repair my uncle performed on another relatives car went afoul and was returned, my dad happened by to take a look and what he told me he saw was just plain insane. He said he saw my uncle, his brother, torque a cylinder head down with an impact wrench and in no particular sequence.

I've worked along side mechanics long enough to know that some things just can't be trusted in the hands of others without at least a watchful eye, especially when the quicker you get it done the better income wise. Flat rate work does not work in your favor as far as quality is concerned.

[3100 MPFI]

as soon as I saw the pic you posted, I said WTF. A friend of mine can verify that I said it out loud.

take a good look at that piston and valve.

These 2 pictures are from when a valve broke in my twin cam. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A VALVE BREAKS DURING ACCELERATION, and this was a NON boosted engine.

This is the PISTON ITSELF:


And this is the VALVE:


In your engine, there would be a LOT more damage seeing that I have 4 SMALL valves, and you have 2 BIG valves.

If your engine would have done this, then most likely, the valve would have turned sideways, and rammed into the opening like mine did.

[3100 MPFI]

forgot to add, in mine, despite it all, it did NO DAMAGE to my cylinder walls. I can just replace the piston (that is the only one damaged), and the head, and I am good to go.

[1988GTU]

[ot] There were a set of tdc heads on ebay for pretty cheap. [ot\]

[3100 MPFI]

That was my spare engine. The engine in my 1995 Cutlass Supreme is knocking, but the engine with the broken valve, the only thing wrong with it is that. I had bought it as a good engine, but all I paid for it was $150, so I am not out too much. I can part it out for some of that back if I want to.

I am either going to swap the connecting rods, and crank from the busted valve engine into my knocking one (after doing some work of course),

OR

I might swap 1 piston and conneting rod from the knocking engine into the broken valve one, then swap the front head.

I got some options. Basically, between the 2 bad engines, I have at least 1 and a half good ones.

To be honest, I think I would rather work on my high output 3100 (the high compression beast that got me hooked on the 60 degree engines). If not for that 3100, I might have slipped into obscurity with the buick boat anchor.

Then again, I want my 1995 running seeing I did all that work to add the HUD, and the BOSE radio. Want to test those out on the highway.

[19Cutlass94]

When I was reading I didnt come across this so Ill ask it here.... when it blowd up... on that 2-3shift..... did it make anykind of noise? cause you didnt say it did, but then again you didnt say it didnt... Im wondering if your "mechanic" had something to do with that part of it.

BTW: where are the pics?!?!?!?!?!?

[john_V63400]

When I was reading I didnt come across this so Ill ask it here.... when it blowd up... on that 2-3shift..... did it make anykind of noise? cause you didnt say it did, but then again you didnt say it didnt... Im wondering if your "mechanic" had something to do with that part of it.

BTW: where are the pics?!?!?!?!?!?

It made no noise at all, it died durring a 2-3 shift. Did my mechanic blow it...I think so

[19Cutlass94]

One would think that with that much damage you would have heard something... get your shady mechanic to pay for your other engine

[sprucegagt]

It made no noise at all, it died durring a 2-3 shift. Did my mechanic blow it...I think so

Where are those pics of your shattered cylinder head?

[CobraCDR]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Hello McFly you there McFly? Where is my homework Mcfly? Oh you didn't do it? What are you Jesus H fuggin christ himself? You think you can run a turbo car blind with no map sensor??? Did you at least have an FMU? Or were you trying to guess based on RPM? Or maybe you tuned it for fuel based on coolant temperature? WTF did you tune it with? Did you have a wideband to monitor the engine?

Let me guess stock pump and stock injectors too? I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did, forged internals or not when an engine detonates it exerts around 1000 X's the normal load on the internals..........

If you Go Cheep plan on Getting Towed home..........don't blame the motor blame yourself for beating the crap out of it without knowing what is going on.