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  • hmm.... if there isn't a flag, then assuming there is a decent hack available of a mask(any mask really) with one in it, i could port the code... i imagine you're refering to the cable-driven speedometer that has a little optical generator/sensor connected to it for the ECM to determine vehicle speed, usually called the VSS buffer? i do know the 7730 C1 pin is actually a 2K PPM output, but i haven't played with the inputs as much... any reason you prefer to run a cable-driven setup, Dave?

    or actually, any other application that used a 7730/7727 with a 2K PPM optical signal, whatever has the most documented code should work the best. would it be possible to hook that signal up to the normal VSS high line and program the road speed constant to 2000 PPM and set the I/P divider to 1?



    also, for anybody running the single-fire stuff, ever feel a "bump" when getting near the BPW limit for single-fire? it seems that GM never implimented a check to see if the previous engine cycle was a fire or no-fire cycle, so when entering into double-fire, there is a 50% chance of getting a large single-fire pulse of fuel one revolution, then the next rev enters into double fire and instead of a cycle of air, there is a shot from double-fire as well, stumbles the hell out of a LH0 when throttle is open pretty far with the TCC locked... and when entering back into single-fire, the stock settings only deliver a 62.5% BPW value...

    i have a testing version in the car right now, should have results in a few hours or so and will post BINs then, since it can be quite a shock and is certainly worthy of an immediate release.



    EDIT: took a closer look, it seems the internal VSS buffering is handled by the U10 chip in the 7730/7727 types, and when the magnetic signal is used, it can either block or combine with an optical input.... what this means is that even though it connects to a different pin on the connector, the only difference is the math involved, since now instead of converting a high PPM signal into a MPH value and then outputting that into a 4K PPM signal for the instrument cluster, now it just needs to convert a 2K PPM signal(or whatever number really, i think i can handle a pretty wide variety of values here depending on the pulse generator) into a MPH value for internal functions, no kind of outputting. granted, it will still output a value on the 4K PPM circuit, but it won't be correct, just need to keep that in mind for the optical setups.

    this should please the fiero crowd as well, now that i think about it.... they all use cable-driven clusters/transaxles from the factory IIRC. no more need for a dakota digital buffer box or one of the later switch-type buffer boxes from the ~93-95 trucks(DRACs)
    Last edited by robertisaar; 05-21-2011, 01:52 PM.
    1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
    Latest nAst1 files here!
    Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

    Comment


    • The regular VSS hi and low pins won't work for the optical signal (trust me , i've tried.. lol) The optical signal is only around 400mv and the VSS HI pin need a bit more to register.

      I've had this cluster hooked up to my Oscope and the test bench for several days trying different things, it's pretty much come down to the code. I could modify the circuit and boost the output voltage but i don't want to run the risk of hurting the IR led.

      I have a magnetic VSS for the '700R4 but there isn't a bolt in speedo that can use an electronic signal for my cluster. Only aftermarket and those are out of my budget.


      It looks like $8D has the optical code, info here: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...0-vss-ppm.html


      *edit, S-AUJP has it. I have a test bin from a while back for my cavalier in that code, might try to run it today to see what happens...


      Thanks for taking a look.



      Dave
      Last edited by Superdave; 05-21-2011, 01:57 PM.
      Past Builds;
      1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
      1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
      Current Project;
      1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

      Comment


      • I tried one of your bins, can't get my car to start at all with it. I txfered over all the info i could from my BFUZ bin as well.. it just floods the hell out of the car. Kinda weird...


        What table are you using for idle fueling?
        Past Builds;
        1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
        1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
        Current Project;
        1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

        Comment


        • idle fuel, along with all other fueling stuff(other than injector sizing and the like), is done through the 400-8400 VE tables. the whole concept of having an idle fuel table, along with a main table and an adder table seemed pointless to me, so i essentially made them all into one.

          cranking fuel adjustment needed?
          1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
          Latest nAst1 files here!
          Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

          Comment


          • i copied all the cranking fuel tables over as well as the BPC and everything else.

            the idle fuel table is nice in $A1, lets pick 60Kpa @ 1200 RPM in my old Z24 tune.. my VE is set to 5.08 (plus the average of 14.26 from the 800 and 1200 of the adder) is 19.34 in cell 0.. the main + adder at that RPM is 30.47 in cell 1. In $A1 i can avoid over-fueling but in your bin i'll be pig rich unless you create some kind of idle VE modifier table.



            I also tried to run my S-AUJP bin and it wouldn't even try to start.. lol
            Past Builds;
            1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
            1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
            Current Project;
            1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

            Comment


            • i tried justifying using the idle VE table, but i consistently found myself making the exact same correction to the idle tables as the main tables, essentially wasting space and CPU cycles.
              1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
              Latest nAst1 files here!
              Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

              Comment


              • lol, you should try to tune a big cammed 3500 with big injectors..

                my idle and main VE tables are very different at the same RPM's.
                Past Builds;
                1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                Current Project;
                1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                Comment


                • i'm not sure how matching RPM and MAP situations can have different correct VE values... unless idle spark modifiers are that significant. i ended up changing my vs MAP multiplier to 1.00 everywhere and it killed ~90% of my rolling idle issue.
                  1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                  Latest nAst1 files here!
                  Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                  Comment


                  • I have a magnetic VSS for the '700R4 but there isn't a bolt in speedo that can use an electronic signal for my cluster. Only aftermarket and those are out of my budget.
                    What about a 90-91 V6 camaro cluster? Should work ??
                    11.92 @ 122 MPH 3400 91 Cavalier Z24 Intercooled S/C. -totalled-
                    10.56 @ 130 MPH 3900 LZ9 87 IROC Z28 Intercooled GT4088 Turbo

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by robertisaar View Post
                      i'm not sure how matching RPM and MAP situations can have different correct VE values... unless idle spark modifiers are that significant. i ended up changing my vs MAP multiplier to 1.00 everywhere and it killed ~90% of my rolling idle issue.
                      As an example, my car idles at 70kpa @ 1200 RPM, that's with no actual engine load.. just low idle vacuum. The idle fueling is way different than if i was driving around town at 1200RPM in 4th with the MAP reading 70kpa due to the real load on it.


                      If we could figure out how to get the Idle BPW as a function of airflow stuff to work and be tuneable then it wouldn't matter at all. Cell 0 fueling could rely totally on calculated airflow. I've gotten it to work a few times on other peoples cars but mine just laughs at it.


                      Mars, no idea if one would fit. That would be a good option though.
                      Past Builds;
                      1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                      1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                      Current Project;
                      1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                      Comment


                      • hmm.... so what do you think the most space-efficient method would be to allow this to work consistently? a high resolution, low RPM only VE table for idle conditions?

                        i imagine you would need a TPS qualifier, maybe MPH as well? i'll certainly have to setup a bit to allow for using that table or ignoring it for those of us that don't need it.

                        personally, i hate the factory alpha-n stuff... i can't mention that enough... i know some of the 8D guys that run ridiculous cams on their TPI 350s and have no trouble with their two VE tables that don't take idle into account.
                        1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                        Latest nAst1 files here!
                        Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                        Comment


                        • You could do it with TPS and MPH, stock does it with TPS, MAP, RPM and MPH.


                          So is cell 0 used at all in your bin right now?
                          Past Builds;
                          1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
                          1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
                          Current Project;
                          1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

                          Comment


                          • yeah, i had all 3 BLM cells available for a while, but the BLM doesn't like to update in cell 2, so i have that disabled for my VE tuning. it's not like you even need more than 1 BLM cell though.

                            what kind of RPM range would be necessary? 600-1600? i'll likely go full 20-100 kPa just for code simplicity. if you think an alpha-n idle would be a good idea however.... i can get the resolution down to .39% intervals if necessary, that would allow TPS to go from 0 to 6.667% over 17 cells.... do you see the need for this idle table above that amount of throttle?
                            1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                            Latest nAst1 files here!
                            Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                            Comment


                            • Howdy, I just got to try out this new setup earlier tonight and thought I'd check in. I have a 94 z24 with a 3100 running my own tune. The car is BFUZ originaly, but tried to port over my own tune since theres a bunch of little things here and there. Anyways, on my tune the car would start, run quite rough till it entered closed loop, then would surge rather bad till it would stall. I loaded up your port of BFUZ and the car ran decently, idle had to adjust and a quick trip around the block seemed rather nice, only at higher loads above around 3000 did it fall on its face. I kinda expected that though, and only did it to see what would happen.

                              While doing the port of my tune, I noticed the note about the VE adder table having to be cleared out and did that. On the ported ones included with nAst1, none of them were cleared out? Not sure if thats my exact issue or if theres some other wierd stuff in my tune. What I plan to do now is just copy over my VE and Spark tables to the BFUZ port, along with the BPC stuff and see what happens. I can post my bins and some datalogs later. Unfortunately my wide band is on another car at the moment, though I might pull it off eventualy and have some data there as well.

                              Comment


                              • even though there are still values in the locations where the old VE table setups used to be, they are not used in any way. the same goes for anything else that is not in the most up to date XDF. as i remove their function, i remove them from the XDF as well.

                                i may have a decent spark table that you can run with, it's one i pulled from a 94-95 W-body 3100 tune... you're running a much lighter vehicle, so a L-body spark table might work better, but i don't have any OBD1.5 L-body BINs to pull it from.

                                welcome to the site, by the way.
                                1995 Monte Carlo LS 3100, 4T60E...for now, future plans include driving it until the wheels fall off!
                                Latest nAst1 files here!
                                Need a wiring diagram for any GM car or truck from 82-06(and 07-08 cars)? PM me!

                                Comment

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