Custom Ground Cams

[Anonymous]

People think the W41 is a god becuz it made some 180hp out of a 4 cylinder. Therefore, its cam specs must be very good, even if they do not apply whatsoever with our motor. Our motor is not a 2.3L 4-cyl, and we do not have similiar head flow, bore x stroke, etc. Therefore I think these specs will do very little for our motor.

[pocket-rocket]

Why wouldn't we have similar head flow? Both are 4 valve per cylinder, but it is deeper then that. I have heard that our top end is actually based off of the Quad 4.

[RacerX11]

Quad4 borexstroke: 92mmx85mm
3.4 DOHC borexstroke: 92mmx84mm

Hmmm..exact same bore, 1mm different stroke. So basically, the 3.4 is pretty close to a 6-cylinder version of the Quad4. Ecept it makes a measely 63 HP/L, while the 180HP HO Quad4 makes 78 HP/L, and the 190HP Quad4 makes 83 HP/L. Heck, even the base 150HP Quad4 makes 65 HP/L. The 3.4 heads are very similar in design to the Quad4 heads, which would lead us to believe they would have similar flow potential to the Quad4. The 3.4 is just crippled by its cams.

If you ask me, the W41 cam specs would be one hell of a good starting point for the 3.4

Marty

[34T]

well that seems to be a good point; and stuff I wasn't aware of - I had never looked into the Quad etc. How is the 4's torque characteristics on a 'per cc' basis? What about head config, I think it is a similar revving engine (7K redline or so?) is it non-interference too? That might be worth some thought..... what else could we look at in this comparo. I suppose if it is gone thru logically doing both FOR's and AGAINST's with reasons for them, that we could come up with some concensus.

So does anyone HAVE the W41 specs so we could compare them to the Z34 I wonder; match lift, duration and overlap etc exactly?

[pocket-rocket]

The Quad is an interferance engine. Hell, even the non H/O ones are interferance. I know because I had to pull the head off of one and replace some valves after the timing chain gave us the finger.

[pocket-rocket]

Quad4 borexstroke: 92mmx85mm
3.4 DOHC borexstroke: 92mmx84mm

Hmmm..exact same bore, 1mm different stroke. So basically, the 3.4 is pretty close to a 6-cylinder version of the Quad4. Ecept it makes a measely 63 HP/L, while the 180HP HO Quad4 makes 78 HP/L, and the 190HP Quad4 makes 83 HP/L. Heck, even the base 150HP Quad4 makes 65 HP/L. The 3.4 heads are very similar in design to the Quad4 heads, which would lead us to believe they would have similar flow potential to the Quad4. The 3.4 is just crippled by its cams.

If you ask me, the W41 cam specs would be one hell of a good starting point for the 3.4

Marty

At this point I wish Ben would have his flow bench going. Do you think the H/O engines and standard ones have the same head, or would they be different too? I have one (well it's not mine) sitting that needs a bottom end, and our GTP parts car to be moved to get it back on the road. If he had his bench up and running I would pull that head quicker then shit to have it compaired to a DOHC. I bet even the non H/O engines have better cam specs then the DOHC just because they are so similar in valve-trane and they have interferance issues.

[DIY_EFI'er]

hey ho-bag, wanna go for a ride in the bimmer?

why don't you pull the cams out of it, and cut one in half, then weld it to the other one, and slap it in the 3.4well, i guess you would need another set of cams to do that as the intake and exhaust cams are certainly diferent. and make sure the journals are the same first. oh well, i was just kidding anyways.

btw, 190 isn't that impressive out of a 4 banger. i know of n/a 2.5l making upto 250+ hp.

[pocket-rocket]

hey ho-bag, wanna go for a ride in the bimmer?

why don't you pull the cams out of it, and cut one in half, then weld it to the other one, and slap it in the 3.4well, i guess you would need another set of cams to do that as the intake and exhaust cams are certainly diferent. and make sure the journals are the same first. oh well, i was just kidding anyways.

btw, 190 isn't that impressive out of a 4 banger. i know of n/a 2.5l making upto 250+ hp.

If your up for a drive up here, slut puppy.

[achievasc92]

btw, 190 isn't that impressive out of a 4 banger. i know of n/a 2.5l making upto 250+ hp.

The w41 was introduced 15 or so years ago in the Calais Quad 442 at the time 190 hp out of any engine was amazing, let alone out of a small 2.3 powerplant. Hell the Quad 442 actually outran the original 442 in several comparos.

[Anonymous]

hey ho-bag, wanna go for a ride in the bimmer?

why don't you pull the cams out of it, and cut one in half, then weld it to the other one, and slap it in the 3.4well, i guess you would need another set of cams to do that as the intake and exhaust cams are certainly diferent. and make sure the journals are the same first. oh well, i was just kidding anyways.

btw, 190 isn't that impressive out of a 4 banger. i know of n/a 2.5l making upto 250+ hp.

I have been driving a M roadster for the past 2 weeks, and I am not impressed. The thing handles and brakes out of this world, but power lacks. There isn't much low end, and the tranny is way soft. The gears are all fucked up, the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts only drop it like 1000rpm, but the 3-4, it drops over 3000rpm.

And weld the cams? You're an idiot and I hope you're joking. They kinda have to be PERFECTLY straight ay know?

[RacerX11]

btw, 190 isn't that impressive out of a 4 banger. i know of n/a 2.5l making upto 250+ hp.

You are right, 190HP out of a 2.3L 4 cylinder isn't real exciting. Oh, wait, the BMW M3 2.3L engine (of the same era as the Quad4 HO) was rated at 192HP, everyone seemed to think it was hot shit. I guess it wasn't all that special. A lowly Pontiac/Oldsmobile passenger car engine putting out the same numbers as a BMW engine breathed on by the M-gods......hahahahaha

Marty

[DIY_EFI'er]

hey john how does the end of august sound? or maybe you could come down here. me and the gf just got into our new house.

yeah, the american versions weren't much to speak of. but the euro (2.5l), and the EVO II & III are a lot different. as for the M roadster, i've never driven one so i can't say. i just like to ruffle feathers every once in a while. BTW, the euro M engine found in the M roadster makes 321hp, not 240hp like the US model.

sorry it went off topic, but it's something that's been talked about 4ever and still hasn't hapened, another reason i don't drive a 3.4 anymore.

[Anonymous]

as for the M roadster, i've never driven one so i can't say. i just like to ruffle feathers every once in a while. BTW, the euro M engine found in the M roadster makes 321hp, not 240hp like the US model.

sorry it went off topic, but it's something that's been talked about 4ever and still hasn't hapened, another reason i don't drive a 3.4 anymore.

You are wrong, the M roadster from 1997 to 2002 made 315hp and 251ft lb of torque. This all out of the S54 3.2L inline 6. Essentially the same as the M3 motor, with a more restrictive exhaust, the 3000lb 2 seater gets down the 1/4mi at 13.1 @ 109mph. And I didn't say it was slow, I just wasn't that impressed. It would kick my ass until it made it's 3-4 shift, then the thing falls flat on it's face. However it hits the 155mph limiter without difficulty once you get 4th and 5th gear in their power range.

Shit is getting done tho, hell we now have a couple cars with decent headers, mine included, and there are many new intkae manis surfacing.(a Independentg TB for me, 69mm for Sappsye, and the other few workign with gutting them)

[sspeedstreet]

I don't remember where I got this info, but here are some specs I found:

Ok here are the spec's on the stock camshafts for the 2.4, 2.3 LO, 2.3 HO, 2.3 W41, Mantapart, and Genertec XX5 Camshaft Spec's. When you compare the stock 2.4 cam specs to the 2.3 you can see that for the most part are close but when you take the 95' 2.3 intake camshaft (you can only use this one because it has the hex for the power steering pump and camshaft position sensor) it has 200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift. The Stock 2.4 has 198 degrees @ .050" with .354" lift. The 95' 2.3 has higher lift than the 2.4 and rotates 2 degrees more. Now when you look at the 90' 2.3 exhaust camshaft, it has 200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift and the 2.4 has 187 degrees @ .050" with .346" lift. The 2.3 has a much higher lift than the 2.4 and rotates 13 degrees more. When combined together you can see any where from 10 hp to 20 hp depending on your modifications to your engine. The idle is perfect and the ECM needs no modifications. On a side note for those who would like to replace the lifters (which is recommended by all) is that the bore of the lifters is 33.0mm for 95' 2.3 and 96' 2.4, and the bore of the older 2.3's is 35.0mm.

1995 Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the intake
LD2 (1990+) Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift for the exhaust

See how close the 95 2.3 intake and the 2.3 LO Exhaust camshaft are to each other.

Camshaft Spec's:

Stock 2.4 LD9 Cam Specs
198 degrees @ .050" with .354" lift for the intake
187 degrees @ .050" with .346" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 LD2 (1989) Cam Specs
212 degrees @ .050" with .345" lift for the intake
212 degrees @ .050" with .345" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 1995 Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the intake
200 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 LD2 (1990) Cam Specs
200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift for the intake
200 degrees @ .050" with .375" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 HO cams Specs
212 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the intake
212 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the exhaust

Stock 2.3 W41 cams Specs
218 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the intake
218 degrees @ .050" with .410" lift for the exhaust

Mantapart Mild Cams Specs
198 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the intake
201 degrees @ .050" with .374" lift for the exhaust

Genertec XX5 Specs
211 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the intake
212 degrees @ .050" with .360" lift for the exhaust


3.4 DOHC Cam Specs

(Measured off a set of 94 cams)
Int: 205 Degree Duration @ .050", Lift = .369"
Exh: 213 Degree Duration @ .050", Lift = .373"

GM Official Cam Specs

91-95
Int: 221 Degree Duration @ .050", Lift = .370", 112 centerline
Exh: 228 Degree Duration @ .050", Lift = .370", 111 centerline

[pocket-rocket]

That is cool that you have the cam specs for all of those engines, but does anyone have any specs for the 96/7 LQ1?