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Possible Dexcool / electrolysis link

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  • Possible Dexcool / electrolysis link

    I have been researching on the web and have seen that Dexcool seems to be the culprit in many cooling system problems on GM cars. But if Dexcool was as bad as it seems, almost literally, millions of vehicles would have cooling system problems, not the relatively low numbers that have been seen to date. This is not to indicate that the issue doesn't exist, but it does look like Dexcool may be a victim and not the root cause. As an engineer, when one looks for a reason for a system failure isolating the root cause is critical to understanding and correcting the problem.

    On todays' vehicles the frame and/or body sheet metal serve as the primary grounding device for the electrical system. If properly connected, it is in fact an extension of the electrical negative return path to the battery connection. Although the body is typically isolated from the chassis by cushioned insulators, the supplemental ground wires connected to each vehicle body are connected back to the chassis and the battery by one or more body-to-frame jumper wires.
    While the vehicles of 30 years ago may have had just a few ground wires, it is quite common to have between 10 and 20 chassis-ground connections sharing the load today. Each and every connection must be functioning properly to complete the circuit and route the flow of electricity back to the battery. Any broken, loose or corroded connections are almost sure to cause a malfunction and alter the flow of electricity. Under these conditions electrical current will stray from its intended route and create a return flow by the path of least resistance.
    In any vehicle that has the Dexcool cooling system problem be suspicious of ground wires. Even in new vehicles it is possible for bad connections and current flow problems. Furthermore damage to ground wires is almost inevitable with vehicle age, accidents or poor installation practices of electrical equipment. In a collision grounds can be damaged creating conditions for a Dexcool cooling system "failure". When grounds are securely connected, the electrical path is well defined. Any connection breach will cause the electricity to find another path of least resistance. Particularly for electrical components or circuitry in close proximity to the radiator or heater—that path can involve the coolant itself.
    On cars with the coolant system issues I strongly suggest you check for electrolysis, use a good digital voltmeter set for 12 volts. Do this test both key on and key off. Attach one test lead to the negative battery post and insert the other test lead into the radiator’s coolant, make sure the lead does not touch the filler neck or the radiator core. You may see a surface charge that could be 0.7 volts or higher. Be patient as it could take up to two minutes for this surface charge to dissipate. Give the measurement time to stabilize (at least 2-3 minutes) A voltage reading of 0.3 VDC or higher indicates that stray current is finding its path to ground through the cooling system. Now the fun starts. With the meter probes in place remove accessory fuses one at a time, wait 30 seconds and read the meter. If you find a circuit that drops the meter to near zero or below 0.3 VDC when you pull it's fuse you've found the offending circuit. At this point you need to check the grounds of the items on that circuit. Remember that a motor could be internally shorted and have case leakage causing problems.
    If after the fuse pull test you can't locate the offending circuit remove the negative battery lead. If the voltage drops to an acceptable level a general system ground check and connection cleanup is in order. When cleaning connections I pull them off and add star washers to assure good metal to metal bite and minimal path resistance. This technique has served me well on cars with electrical gremlins of all kinds...

    Good Luck
    Andromeda
    Andromeda451
    Phx, AZ
    99 Lumina LS
    92 Jetta GLi16V
    78 Porsche 924

  • #2
    Thanks for giving us some excellent articles here lately Last week, a friend of mine was having an issue with a quad driver in the ECM on a 95 sunfire with a 2.2. Rebuilt 2.2 with new sensors galore and all the grounds gave a continuity check sound from the volt meter. I have known bad sensors to cause quad driver issues but in this case, it was the quality of the ground that was the problem.

    I have also read reviews on the grounding kits that some company makes that puts more wires from the motor to the chassis. The reviews showed improved drivability, performance, and milage. Of course I don't remember where I read it but it did make sense given the important of EMI and RFI suppression from the ignition on computer controlled vehicles. As with computers and their power supply important today, the simple power and ground issues in the vehicle should also be checked out from time to time to make sure everything is solid.

    Would the aluminum/iron setup in most of our motors increase the damage or help initiate the electrolosis issue? I know its discussed when having a bi-metal engine using dexcool. Even if the root is grounding issues, why does the dex-cool deal with it worse then other coolant types? Organic vs inorganic?
    Ben
    60DegreeV6.com
    WOT-Tech.com

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    • #3
      dexcool

      The electrolysis issue has been luring underhood for many years. We (and GM) have avoided the bullet because cars were much simpler years ago. I recently purchased a 99 Lumina w/3100 and was SHOCKED at how many sensors, grounds, electrical accessories etc. are installed in a relatively basic car. (I must be getting old ) Multiple / different metals have been used in cars for many years but recent developments with respect to engine and chassis management is a relatively new development. I will be doing some testing this week to determine if there is a "shotgun" fix that can be applied cheaply to the vehicle to assure reliability and lower TCO (total cost of ownership) I'll make sure I post the results here. A far as Dexcool goes I can't comment yet on the organic versus no-organic anti-freeze question yet. At first blush it looks like dexcool is just a coincident player and the real culprit is stray current. After reading the comments that place a conspiracy theory behind every thing GM does I find the only way to be sure is to have data to back up the opinions. I don't see GM as the bogeyman corporation here. They don't deliberately design a bad car nor do their engineers have to deal with 7 year old vehicles and their problems! Data will tell all.

      Regards,
      Andromeda
      Andromeda451
      Phx, AZ
      99 Lumina LS
      92 Jetta GLi16V
      78 Porsche 924

      Comment


      • #4
        DexCool vs gaskets

        While I believe you may be onto something with electrolosys and it's effects, and I totally support your ideas on good grounds, (had 62 Chevy p/u, bad engine to body ground, 327 where 6cyl was, downshifted, bad motor mount lifted and motor/generator ungrounded, ammeter went to over 60 amp +, blew every light that was on, stereo, even gas gauge died. That sucked!)
        But it seems the material the gaskets themselves were made of did not get along well at all with DexCool once it started to turn acidic. It will attack and seep in the bad spot in the edge of the gasket exposed to coolant, and just eats it away until it fail. Am currently dealing with a junkyard motor that way put in in Oct 08. Was warned by salvage yard guy (good guy, many parts bought there over 10yrs, never screwed) and a friend whose wifes car did same thing, but was planning on keeping car short term, was going to give to daughter to use as a trader, but the economy went stupid, sooo......
        Orig. engine had a bearing go south, wonder why? Could it be it did this too, prev. owner caught it, but how long and how much coolant in oil before, hmmm? But I still have it, no core charge to yard, kept for fuel injectors alone!

        Comment


        • #5
          i totaly agree dexcool sucks there is no shuch thing as a five year coolant thats why i like to flush all it out and use the green from what i have found keeping a very very good eye on the electrolight level on dexcool will help to keep the electrolisis under controll and prevent gaskets sealing two dissimialar metals together ie cast to aluminum from going bad to soon but also the dreaded heater cores i use to love doing those $$$$ and is always a good idea to attactch a ground from the core to the cassi during replacement o ya everytime open the cooling system with dexcool it allows air to get in and start reacting negativly causeing it to break down and turn in to that muddy crap we see in the expansion tanks and caps that stuff is very bad for electrolisis so with a fresh clean dexcool system should last the five years as long as you dont open the cap or allow it to boil over wich will suck air itto the system when the pressure drops after shut down so i say DOWN WITH THE ORANGE UP WITH THE GREEN lol

          Comment


          • #6
            a good test to do always i a voltage drop on the ground side of the batt and chassi preventative maint dex cool is very touchy me no liky but putting a better thicker ground like 4 gauge from neg batt cable to chassi replace the 10 gauge peace of crap that the factory puts on and if you decide to replace the orange muddy crap run it for a couple of days with just watyer you want to get it all out before going green cause green is for go there is a chemical reaction between the two when the combination is right were it will start to turn thick turn allmost like jello real wierd

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