"press-on" 7x timing wheel

[gectek]

I would REALLY REALLY like to follow up on this and see if anything can be done. I want one really bad. Getting a converter is kind of a bad idea due to cost, so im sure that a new ring is alot less expensive. I would take 2 or 3 of them. Want to make a 3900 work very badly.

[SappySE107]

x2, I want an update on those rings.

[Joseph Upson]

Just stumbled across this thread, you guys should have sent me a PM as I loose track of some of the threads I nose around in. I actually received an updated quote earlier this year from the company that made them for me but never acted on it because I didn't note an interest in them anymore with the TCE outfit being available. Although the ring fits tight on the crank, I'm a little paranoid about not having proper testing methods in place to be extra sure so I also tapped and threaded a couple of set screws in the ring I used and drilled a small indent in the crank surface. It takes a good die, lube and patience to do (thread the small holes) or you could tack weld the ring a couple of times which would be much easier. I believe I posted pictures on how I indexed the ring on the crank.

I had the ring sized to a point where I was able to heat it on the stove causing it to expand enough to slip on the crank and tighten up once it cooled down. I'll see if I can find the specs from the quote. The guy that did the first set for me no longer works for the company and it took them a while to find the original design plan.

For the forged motor I intend to build I was thinking about having the 7x pattern ground into the crank but realilzed that it is assymetrical in that area and would probably result in some balancing problems that would require heavy metal to correct eventhough my connecting rods and pistons will come up to a total of about 70 grams lighter per throw in addition to whatever amount the offset grind is going to reduce the pin weight by.

[gectek]

FYI....ALL the timing wheels on the LS cranks and the 3900/3600 are pressed on with nothing else to hold them on but interference.

[Joseph Upson]

FYI....ALL the timing wheels on the LS cranks and the 3900/3600 are pressed on with nothing else to hold them on but interference.

I'm aware of that, however I did not deploy the kind of metal, testing and confriming that GM used to have the confidence that they have the ring will not move once installed. There is also the risk of the ring being moved as a result of incorrect positioning of the CPS sensor allowing the metal magnetic button on its end to contact inside one of the notches and possibly move the ring out of position. So I went through the trouble of adding set-screws for the ones I used.

It's not a chance I'm willing to take because being wrong means dropping the engine and the crank and no telling what else should the ring come completely off the seat and damage something. Better safe than sorry.

[gectek]

well you cannot say what material because gm used 2 diff ones though. the first (24) was a single piece but made of 2 that were spot welded together. the second (5 is a single piece of steel. they are 2 diff materials both, and are just pressed on, def not heated and pressed then left to set and shrink. i know, our machine shop does them all the time. i do understand what you are thinking and saying, but dont overthink it too much.

[Joseph Upson]

well you cannot say what material because gm used 2 diff ones though. the first (24) was a single piece but made of 2 that were spot welded together. the second (5 is a single piece of steel. they are 2 diff materials both, and are just pressed on, def not heated and pressed then left to set and shrink. i know, our machine shop does them all the time. i do understand what you are thinking and saying, but dont overthink it too much.

The issue is tensile strength and hardness of the metal they used vs what I used in addition to the width and relief indentations found in the OE ring that are missing from mine. There is also the question of how combustion harmonics can possibly affect the placement as well. This has to be over thought because it's my "baby" being used in someone elses hard work. If it tears up my engine no problem, if it destroys yours then what?

[gectek]

yes i understand that. but i can show you a picture of the ring gm uses for the 24x. it is less than stellar and def not high up there when you think about all these things. tensil strength is out of its vocab. it is spot welded together. and fairly easy to bend.

[farmerz24]

If you still have the inside dimensions of the ring, I can probably make them here. Seems that even using a 3500 crank with smaller rod pins would be a cheap way for us to have better crank for earlier motors - and I would be more than willing to be part of that

if you are going aftermarket rods you might as well use the 4.3 rods with the 2.25 big end pins. I know i posted in an earlier thread that the rod is offset on the big end but i did some measuring last night and since the rods need to be shortened in width on the big end it appears that the one side with the larger offset can be ground and this will re-center the rods. I will measure with calipers tonight.

[Joseph Upson]

yes i understand that. but i can show you a picture of the ring gm uses for the 24x. it is less than stellar and def not high up there when you think about all these things. tensil strength is out of its vocab. it is spot welded together. and fairly easy to bend.

Precisely my point, my ring is not as flexible and therefore less likely to stretch without breaking should something snag it and it will also transmit vibrations better since it is thicker further increasing the potential risk of a problem and since it lacks the internal relief points the OE ring does it can't be stretched as much and may behave differently when it heats up to over 200 deg. My oil temps ran as high as 230 deg. I removed the OE ring and noted its flexibility and resistance to being removed. My ring will probably stay put without a problem. I'm just not willing to take the chance of installing it without the precautionary measures I took. It's just much safer for me to over do it and not have to worry about it after I'm done.

You're welcome to try it though, maybe I'll develop the nerve after that.

[92cavquest]

Damn, lol. I just bought the TCE trigger a few days ago. I would be interested in buying one though if they come available.

[Joseph Upson]

I intend to order some here shortly, it will be a couple of weeks or so since one of their laser cutters is down for a tune up.

[gectek]

a little more dirt on the ring issue. seems like no prob. one guy does tack weld it on when they put them on for assurance.

this is a direct quote from another site about the LS timing rings....

"I have the alignment tool as well. You will need to heat the reluctor to get it off. I usually heat the new one in the oven, it will then slip right on. I've never had one slip but Eagle cranks are famous slipping. On those, I tack the ring in place with a TIG."

so its only on one style and because eagle sucks lol.