Need help with oil pan removal - almost there

[Schmieder]

1996 Grand Prix SE 3100 w/ 4t60e trans

Every part blocking access removed, 3 bolts Oil Pan to Mount under Crank Pulley removed, 12 Oil Pan bolts removed, 3 horizontal bolts near Oil Filter removed, engine secured/braced from top, Steering Pinch Bolt removed, rear sub frame bolts loose and front sub-frame bolts removed and sub-frame is resting on a jack (lowered about 2"), the block is raised about 1"....so I have about 3" from oil pan to front mount.

The darn pan will not budge. I tapped it many times all arouond as best I could and that should have broken any seal that developed over 60k miles (not too many). Honestly, it feels like I am missing a bolt(s) somewhere. I didn't abuse the pan but I put a good effort in removing it, no budge.

Am I missing a horizontal bolt on the rear side? This is baffling.....and frustrating.

[95Grand-Am]

Am I missing a horizontal bolt on the rear side? yes in between motor and trans, same as the oil filter side just the opisite side of the engine.

[Schmieder]

Am I missing a horizontal bolt on the rear side? yes in between motor and trans, same as the oil filter side just the opisite side of the engine.

Ahhh, thanks 95GA! I was swearing up a storm at GM yesterday, ha. This has to be the most complicated oil pan removal ever.

Here is a good question....

For future refference, can I simply raise the block an inch or two w/o having to lower the sub-frame crossmember thing in order to remove the oil pan? It seems like it would work but I don't want to over look anything critical.

Also, is it really necessary to unbolt the Steering Pinch Gear if I am only seperating the block and sub-frame by a couple inches at most? I know I'll be in the crankcase again in the future and really would like an easier way.

Thanks Guys

EDIT: Ughhhhh.... The pan is free, the sub-frame is lowered at least 8 inches and the block is raised about 2-3 inches. AND I still can't get the pan out. It is SOOOO close but no dice.

%^&%#$^& GM kiss my @$$ Why can't they make it easier on us?

[Schmieder]

YEAH BABY!!! I got the Oil Pan OFF!!! .....and in one piece too, lol.

I REALLY had to drop the sub-frame a good distance to get it out. I was over looking the trans to frame mount, that prevented the frame from dropping far enough. I thought the Trans to Frame mount was the one in the back which is actually the Trans to Block thing which needs removed to reach 1 vertical oil pan bolt.

Either way, the project moves onward. Now I can tap those pistons out soon and investigate, begin honing and give her a thorough cleaning. I got plenty of kerosene, lint free cloths, wire brushes of many diameter and a nifty pair of cleaning gloves that go up the whole arm.

Yes, this project is done with block in the bay, I know...I know. I got long arms and motivation to do it the harder way, lol.

I'm going to fully flush the entire crank area with a kerosene spray/wash-down after honing, cleaning, ect. The crank had two seafoam treatments just prior to tear down.

[pocket-rocket]

Are you dropping the crank as well, or just removing rods from the crank? If the crank is coming out, you have to remove the transmission so you may as well pull the engine to make it easier.

[Schmieder]

Are you dropping the crank as well, or just removing rods from the crank? If the crank is coming out, you have to remove the transmission so you may as well pull the engine to make it easier.

Well, I REALLY don't want to pull the block. This project has originally started because the valve seat for piston #6 came loose and dented the crap out of piston#6. The rings are still intact but the crown is cracked. Obviously the piston is wrecked so I am replacing. But while I'm down there she is getting honed, new rod bearings (just in case the impacting damaged #6 rod bearings), new hyper pistons and some quality rings meant to handle the heat/boost better. I am also installing a crank scraper.

I have since replaced the damaged head with a rebuilt head. I ported the short side radius bend in the intake pocket myself (to match the work I did on the rear head).

It was a rare valve seat pop out. I practically never seen it myself until now. I really don't think 5-8psi was the main cause but it definately helped it come loose. The cooling system is practically new.

Maybe the timing was advanced too much??? I don't know. It seems I had did something to the heads to cause the issue. It is possible someone could have swapped or mixed up my intake valves while on my work bench. But my kids know there would be hell to pay and are not allowed in there when I have such stuff out.

btw, the hard part is done...getting started. I'm sure you know the feeling....looking at a fully assembled engine and say to yourself, "I need to remove the pistons...UGHH!"

oh and I GOT THE PISTONS OUT....yeah..I feel good. Everything marked, in order and cataloged. Tonight I might start the bearing investigation and get an idea how the engine was doing.

[3400-95-Modified]

Your this far in, I can't see how it can be any harder to remove the block and work on it ouside the car. Infact it would have been much eaiser. You wouldn't have had to remove the lower subframe to clear, and could have left the trans in the car.

[Schmieder]

Your this far in, I can't see how it can be any harder to remove the block and work on it ouside the car. Infact it would have been much eaiser. You wouldn't have had to remove the lower subframe to clear, and could have left the trans in the car.

Yeah, I know. But I would have to get a lift to do that. Right now I am using a fabricated steel I-Beam bolted to the frame top and chained to the block. It holds the block in place a-ok but won't lift.

It may be a little harder but that is ok, I don't mind. Had the piston not cracked from the valve seat I would have waited until spring when I plan to drop in a getrag 5-speed.

[pocket-rocket]

Since you have the whole top end removed and 50% of the bottom end, you could just get a friend to come over and the two of you could lift the block out at this point. Then when it comes time to reinstall, have them come back over. When Ben was disaseembling his one 92 GPSE DOHC, that's how we removed the engine without a lift. A block and bottom end really isn't that bad with two people as long as they aren't twig boys. If you were a bit closer you would be more than welcome to use my engine hoist and a stand.

[3400-95-Modified]

Autozone or Advance Auto should start renting out engine hoists... LOL

[Schmieder]

Since you have the whole top end removed and 50% of the bottom end, you could just get a friend to come over and the two of you could lift the block out at this point. Then when it comes time to reinstall, have them come back over. When Ben was disaseembling his one 92 GPSE DOHC, that's how we removed the engine without a lift. A block and bottom end really isn't that bad with two people as long as they aren't twig boys. If you were a bit closer you would be more than welcome to use my engine hoist and a stand.

I appreciate the offer. I did consider the weight with the entire top removed and a lot of the bottom removed, just lifting it out by hand. But I can finish the job as it is right now.

So far I am cruising along nicely. The cylinders are cross-hatch honed. I really pumped that drill up and down fast and was able to get a really nice crosshatch angle. Wiped them clean and I stuffed paper towels into the cylinder bores to keep it clean. Got the new pistons on the rods...just waiting on ARP rod bolts/nuts to install the pistons. In the mean time, today, I plan to fit the crank scrapper.

The internals were looking really clean for 60k miles. I do use seafoam just prior to oil changes so that probably helped.

I just ordered new plugs 2 degrees colder versus the 1 degree colder I had with a set of indexing copper washers, tapered. What direction to index the plug is best? Should the open area face the intake valve, exhaust valve or in between?

Autozone or Advance Auto should start renting out engine hoists... LOL

Yeah, they should. But I'de rather own one. I would end up wanting to keep it but it is used sooo.....I'm going to purchase a good one when I build and drop in the 3400 project.

[robertisaar]

when indexing spark plugs, you want the open area of the plug to point directly at the intake valve.