Engine Upgrade

[IanSzgatti]

yes... well said. Horsepower is just a measure of how quickly the engine can produce the torque needed to "get you moving".

[lucki5179]

GOTCHA i love when people k.i.s.s.(keep it simple stupid) me well the good thing is that the entire top of the motor is already off the car is being totally being redone and i want the most bang for my buck. if i could find a parts list and/or a guide as to do it it would make it a lot easier than guessing what i need to do and i'm probably am going to have to take alot back to the store and get the right stuff it just a matter of finding a list somewhere

[3100 MPFI]

I don't know if anyone has done a list because there is sometimes variations between cars. For me, when I did mine, it was just a complete engine swap that I did.

For the parts, I would get:

1996+ 3100/3400 HEADS
1996+ 3400 lower intake manifold
1996+ 3400 upper intake manifold
OR 2001+ 3100 Upper intake manifold
1996+ 3400 MINIVAN throttle body
3100 or 3400 power steering resevoir
3100 or 3400 EXHAUST manifolds and crossover (depends on what your car is. If you have a Cutlass Supreme, I recomend getting a rear exhaust manifold from a newer Lumina 3100 that has the downpipe outlet in the CENTER).
your cars platform exhaust downpipe from a compatible engine
3100 or 3400 heater pipe from the top of the water pump
3100 or 3400 heater pipe from the rear of the thermostat housing
1996-1998 3100 GREEN BAND injectors (I think those are the best ones for this setup) and fuel rail from a w-body.
your cars platform 3100 or 3400 THROTTLE CABLES




There is somethings that will need to be determined as you do this. One example of this is the mounting for the Air Conditioner Compressor. I think you will want to use a 1991-1993 3.1 MPFI bracket.

For the motor mounts, you can use the same ones you have now, so none of that shoud change. The 3100 SFI can use the 3.1 MPFI dogbones. Just make sure your new front head has the bracket on it.

Minor things you are going to have to figure out are some of the wiring issues. I use the 3.1 MPFI harness, and just relocate some of the wires (knock sensor, DIS, have ot be moved, and the IAC and TPS wires have to be lengthened).

The cruise control might have to be worked on. There is only 1 year of the Cutlass Supreme to get the VACUUM cruise control, but the 3100 SFI engine, and that is 1993, so a 1993 cable will be needed.

The last issue I can think of is TUNING. It might not run too good like this, but if you get it tuned, then that will all be fixed.

[lucki5179]

thanx i would love to see pic of yours because u have the same cutlass in the photo but that really helps but what about rockers and pushrods?

[3100 MPFI]

you will want to use the rockers that come with the heads (that is why I said 1996+). I have heard (but someone will need to confirm this) that you can use your stock 3.1 MPFI pushrods. I THINK the 3100 pushrods are different seeing that the 3.1 MPFI is FLAT TAPPET, and the 3100 SFI is ROLLER LIFTER. I have not looked at this at all.

The Green car in my SIG is my 1995 Cutlass Supreme SL that has the 3.4 DOHC V6. The Cutlass Supreme that has the 3100 SFI is my GOLD 1988 Cutlass Supreme. Here are some pics of it before I pulled it apart to do the OBD2 conversion to it.

EXTERIOR:


INTERIOR:


ENGINE:

[3100 MPFI]

might as well add some pics of my green car as well so you can see the differences.

The car in my SIG is my 1995 Cutlass Supreme SL with the 3.4 DOHC V6.

EXTERIOR:


INTERIOR:


ENGINE:

[IanSzgatti]

Is the 3800 engine and trans too large for the 3100 platform cars? It just seems like a more benificial upgrade!?! Can you imagine my malibu there with the supercharged series III? WHOA! It would be worthy of the SS badges

[lilrebel68]

horsepower is how FAST you go at full throttle... TORQUE is the head-snapping punch you FEEL in the seat of your pants that helps you get to your peak horsepower... in my view, if you have a broad, strong torque curve, you dont have to wait as long to get where you're going.. My experience is in racing so i use that example.. HORSEPOWER helps you down the straightaway when you are wide open, TORQUE helps you get off the corner faster than the other guy with more HP.. its kind of a toss-up.. I'll take a big kick in the pants anyday.. Its nice to have big HP, but the goal is to have the peak torque start as early and last as long as possible.. and to have the HP/Torque number be as equal as you can get it.. some mods make a horsepower difference, and some make a torque difference....

[Superdave]

Is the 3800 engine and trans too large for the 3100 platform cars? It just seems like a more benificial upgrade!?! Can you imagine my malibu there with the supercharged series III? WHOA! It would be worthy of the SS badges

it's about the same size but weighs alot more..


you could get the same power without a supercharger and stick with the 60 degree family. or just toss some boost at your current engine.

[1995 Gold Ciera]

it's about the same size but weighs alot more..


you could get the same power without a supercharger and stick with the 60 degree family. or just toss some boost at your current engine.

It may be even more beneficial to do something like you did Dave and swap in a 3500. Would it mate up with a 4T60-E though and could it handle the power is the question.

[Z26-T]

Is the 3800 engine and trans too large for the 3100 platform cars? It just seems like a more benificial upgrade!?! Can you imagine my malibu there with the supercharged series III? WHOA! It would be worthy of the SS badges

No offence to you buick/olds owners... But the majority of the customers that I see that have the 3800 in their vehicles are in buicks, the customers have canes, and have that odd old person smell... Yes, there are a couple in Grand prix, but the majority 3800s I see are in "grandma cars". I'm just not a big fan of throwing a "grandma" engine in a car, when there are so many upgrades you can do to the 2.8-3.1-3100-3400-3500-3900 engines. Mostly the first four... but still. If you have a v6 in there that people have turned "easy" 13s in. Why "re-invent the wheel". I used waaay too many quotation marks... Sorry for taking off topic. And don't get me wrong, I like buicks and olds, but they're a steriotypical old person car. (I just made up that word, it prolly doesn't exist or is spelled right, but it sounded good in my head). And I would do a lot of things for one of those turboed buick roadmasters... But then again, I also would for one of those turboed 3 banger geos...

For performance to your car, listen to what 3100 mpfi said

[3100 MPFI]

Actually, the buick engine (the 3800) is a LARGER engine than the 3100 both in WEIGHT and SIZE.

The 3100 is a 60 degree engine meaing the heads are closer together, wheras the buick engine is a 90 degreen engine, meaning the heads are further apart. The 3800 is larger (wider, really) than the 3100 becase of the added 30 degrees of spread between the heads.

I am by no means a capable person of giving advice. I just tell people about what worked for me. I am the first person out there that pushes doing the engine NA first. I honestly believe that you can NOT supercharge or turbocharge an engine without first building one to make power without forced induction. By building a strong NA engine first, it helps you get a better understanding of the internal workings of these engines and how to determine what makes power the best for them.

Any ricer kid with mommy and daddies credit card can add a turbo, but only a REAL car guy can take what he already has, and make it fast without adding one of the big 3 of forced induction. Please do not think that I am knocking forced induction here. I am only stating that MY PERSONAL OPINION is that you need to build an engine FIRST.

I have done that. I built a high compression 3100 that kicked a lot of ass, and embarassed a good number of ricer kids. Nothing is more embarassing to a kid in a honda with something resembleing SCAFFOLDING for a spoiler than a midsize OLDSMOBILE that can hand them their ass. You think that is funny, do it in a MARY KAY PINK Grand Prix with a minor built up 3100 SFI. Now that that is done, I am thinking about doing something turbocharged.

I think that I might turbo one of my cars, but I have not really sat down yet and started looking into what all I need to do. I have made power with an NA engine, and now I feel that I can go into the forced area's with complete confidence that I have a good foundation to build off of.



WOW, this really got offtopic, didn't it?

[1995 Gold Ciera]

You think that is funny, do it in a MARY KAY PINK Grand Prix with a minor built up 3100 SFI

I would have loved to see the look on their face.

But seriously, I think your idea is pretty accurate. At least it was when I had my Mustang. Sure you could add a supercharger right off the bat on a stock engine but with heads, cam, intake upgrades, and exhaust that supercharger with a relatively small amount of boost (7 or 8 psi) the whole package would really shine!

I would imagine that the same would be true of these engines.

[IanSzgatti]

it's about the same size but weighs alot more..


you could get the same power without a supercharger and stick with the 60 degree family. or just toss some boost at your current engine.

then thats what i need to hear. when ever I do something like that i just hope i will have kept the car clean eonugh to build up. It could realistically be 2 years before I get to it. Which blows because it's not just my everyday job fixing cars it's my hobbie.

[3100 MPFI]

Yeah. Nothing better than the look on a kids face when they try to race a GUY driving a PINK SEDAN, and the PINK SEDAN WITH A BENCH SEAT hands them their asses. I miss that car. May it rest in pieces.

All I had really done to it was K&N drop in air filter, LG8 3100 large port intake manifold swap, 56mm throttle body, adjustable transmission modulator, and a really good tune up. The car had the stock 15 inch steelies with hubcaps, but when I did the struts in it, I used KYB GR-2's and I also installed the GMPP strut tower brace.

That car was AWESOME. I was slowly fixing it up. At one point, i had thrown my Cutlass Supreme 16inch wheels on it with my 225/55ZR16 BFGoodrich G-Force T/A KDWS tires on it. It REALLY stuck to the road then. It was the PERFECT sleeper.

Here is my Mary Kay car back in it's prime.

EXTERIOR:




INTERIOR:


ENGINE:


<sniff,sniff




The good thing about taking a long time before you get to doing the work is you can carefully plan out what you want. I have a friend that might be moving in with me, and I have him planning out what he wants his Grand Prix to look like, and be like when we are done. I told him to write down EVERY SINGLE IDEA he has, no matter how stupid it might seem, and we will sit down and see why he would want something that might not be normal. So far, I think we have some really good ideas between the two of us, and if I made a suggestion, he then took it and ran with it, and has come up with something that is more me nudging him towards what I would do, but he adding his own things to make it his.