Leaky Intake Manifold Gasket?

[jimgaer]

I've got a 2003 Monte Carlo with a 3400. I know enough to be dangerous, but apparently not enough to know exactly my problem. Bought car in Dec with 37,000 miles on it. Started having heat problems mid January. (I'm in Minnesota where you notice that right away!) Quick story:Noticed I was low on antifreeze. Filled antifreeze. Thought I had a leak. - Never found a leak. Heat was poor again. Temp gage was acting funny. - Low temp, then temp would rise to about 180F, then thermostat would open, temp would go down. I replaced thermostat. Filled antifreze up thought all was okay. I got to 39000 miles, thought I'd change oil. Oil was black. When I bought car, oil looked okay. I overfilled oil by about .5 quart. Car begins to make noise like it's low on oil after about 2000 miles. I was 1.5 quarts of oil low!!! Thought I had maybe caused a problem by over filling. Drove another 1000 miles, low on oil again by 1.5 quarts. Oil was black. Changed oil, low on oil by 1.5 quarts after about 750 miles. Then it occurred to me to check the antifreeze. It's at least 1/3 radiator low, plus most 1/2 the overflow tank is gone. Added more oil. Oil on dipstick looks fairly clean, but too dirty for 750 miles. Oil does not look milky in the least. Found about 3-4 micro air bubbles on dip stick. - Also found "chocolate milk" on radiator cap spring). Thinking about it , same material was on thermostat when it did not apprear to open all the time. Do I have a leaky upper intake manifold gasket problem? What about lower intake gasket?

[gpse3400]

no fluid runs in the upper so you may have a lower intake gasket issue. Is the engine spewing alot of white smoke out the tail pipe? Let try to rule out the head gasket.
FYI I wouldn't drive the car anymore till you have this figured out.

[jimgaer]

I never noticed any white smoke. I'll look today. But it can be difficult to tell when the temerature is 30 degrees. Thanks for the info. I'll check today at lunch. I'll let you know

[Acid_Burn]

not trying to hijack your thed or anything. But if theres white smoke cumming out of the tail pipe then its not the LIM gaskit? Im doing a LIM on my grandma's 1995 3100 in a buick skylark. Its kind of the same story as jimgaer's.

[jimgaer]

White Exhaust

As I said before, it's about 35 degrees out today. All cars have some whiteish exhaust on a day like today. Mine definitely seems to have more white exhaust than the other out there today.

[jimgaer]

Just Answer

Okay, I appreciate the input I got from a couple of you. Ever heard of Just Answer.com? I found it, and shamefully I paid for an answer. - Only $15.00 So, I thought I'd put it out there for all of you who at the same level I am or less. If you actually take the time to read this, it would be great if you just answered with "I agree" or "He's full of it."

You got to Just answer.com. Ask a question. Deposit $9,$15, or $30. Some guy "expert" answers the question. Youi don't hit accept until you are satisfied wht their answer. You can reply and continue the questioning. So here's the text. Do you agree or not?


2003 Monte Carlo 3.4L VIN E. Bought with 37,000 miles on it. Changed oil at 39,500. Oil dark. Changed oil again at 42,000. In between had coolant go low enough to set off warning light. Thermostat was very intermittent. Could watch temp gage go up to 220F before thermostat would open. Replace thermostat ASAP. Added oil and coolant. Oil was down 1.5Q between changes. Have been using oil about 1-1.5Q in 1000 miles. Coolant down some as well. Exhaust white when cars is first powered up. Inatke manifold gasket bad? Upper or Lower? Other simple test to narrow Problem? Optional Information:
2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 3.4 L VIN E

Already Tried:
Nothing yet. I was hoping the failure was similar to my 99 LeSabre where I replace the plastic intake manifold due to the leak there. I read that the water jacket in the 3.4L only goes from head to head, and there's no way to get coolant into the engine. Car is spic and span. There is absolutely no leak of oil or coolant on outside of motor. You could eat off the motor it is so clean.


Answer
A bad intake gasket will suck oil thru it.Usualy a head gasket leaks coolant externally, a cracked head will cause it to go into the cylinders and if it has run hot and over heated the head cracked.The intake gaskets are very common.Napa has a kit with special fluid to detect combustion gasses in the cooling system.Look into the oil fill hole in the valve cover and if its black and slimy in there odds are the oil rings are stuck

I don't think the engine got hot enough to crack the heads. I usually watch the gages like a hawk. - Especially when it got up to about 220F. I did not drive the car after that event until I replaced the thermostat, coolant and changed the oil.

Forgot to mention chocolate milk like sludge was on the thermostat when I replaced it. Yesterday I looked at the radiator cap, had similar stuff on the inside of cap.

The slugde in the radiator is the intake gasket sucking the oil into the cooling system when you shut it off and it cools down.


What do you think? Agree? or Full of it?

[Rhedalert]

BZZZ!!! At least not on these motors. The gasket would have to fail at the air inlet ports to "suck oil in" which almost never happens. When the gasket fails at the coolant ports like they all do, coolant leaks out with about 15psi behind it, while any oil that could potentially get into the cooling system is just generally splashed up there. So it won't generally happen. If oil is getting into the cooling sys, it's likely a head or block problem (crack, gasket fail, etc) since oil is directed thru them and at a much higher pressure than the cooling sys. The gunk you are seeing on the radiator cap is a mixture of the sealant additive that GM installs in almost all new vehicles, as well as dexcool breaking down and some additives coming out of solution.

[RedZMonte]

the chocolate milk on the t-stat/rad cap could be from mixing dex cool with regular coolant.

S

[SuzukiGhostRider]

I would almost certainly say you have one of 3 things here.
1.) Bad head
2.)Bad head gasket
3.)Cracked block.
Also, while the chocolate could be the Dex Cool mixing with normal Antifreeze, I'm going to assume you were smart enough to only add Dex Cool to top off. The chocolate is being caused by oil mixing with antifreeze more than likely. Time to pull those heads! GL.

[Acid_Burn]

My mom showed my this about aweek ago. And I thought Id share it if you havent seen it. Maybe dexcool is to blame here who knows. Maybe you can get your car fixed on GM buck.

GM agrees to settle class-action lawsuits tied to engine coolant
KANSAS CITY, Mo.: General Motors Corp. has agreed to settle a series of class-action lawsuits claiming a faulty engine coolant damaged thousands of customer vehicles.

Under the settlement, GM would reimburse class members between $50 and $800 for repairs linked to Dex-Cool, an orange coolant that GM included in cars and trucks beginning in 1995.

The total cost to GM will depend on the number of customers claiming damages, but the plaintiffs' attorneys estimate the settlement could cover up to 20 million initial and secondary buyers of GM vehicles that used Dex-Cool. They also say the price tag could reach the hundreds of millions of dollars.

A California state court gave preliminary approval to the settlement last week and a Missouri court plans to consider it Friday.

"We fought for about five years to recover monetary damages for people that would be meaningful and I think we achieved that," said San Francisco plaintiff attorney Eric Gibbs, who estimated most people spent between $600 and $900 for repairs. "The recovery for most of the people will be pretty good."
GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said the company was not admitting any wrongdoing but is settling the case to cut down on legal bills.

"Our experience with Dex-Cool is that when the cooling system is kept full and properly maintained we haven't seen any problems," he said. "These kinds of things appear to be issues of low coolant, which isn't unusual with high-mileage vehicles, so we decided to agree to the settlement."

GM owners have filed a dozen breach-of-warranty lawsuits in state and federal courts across the country, including California and Missouri, where one of the earliest cases was filed in April 2003.

The cases all claim vehicles with Dex-Cool often damaged the engines or created a rusty sludge in the radiators that caused the vehicles to overheat.

Under the agreement, GM will reimburse some of the cost for intake manifold gasket replacements, cooling system flushes and heater core repairs sought during the first seven years or 150,000 miles, whichever came first, that the class member owned the vehicle. Considering that some vehicles may have been sold and the new owners also paid for repairs alleged to have been caused by Dex-Cool, individual vehicles may generate more than one settlement.

Negotiations on a settlement began shortly before the Missouri case was scheduled to go to trial in November. They culminated with the agreement being filed in Alameda County Superior Court in Oakland, Calif., on March 20. That settlement covers 49 states.

A separate Missouri settlement, with the same terms as the California one, is scheduled to go before a judge Friday in Jackson County, Mo. Missouri had a separate settlement as it was the first states to grant class-action status to the claims, said Jack Brady, a Kansas City-based attorney and co-lead counsel.

"It could be multiple nine figures; it depends on how many people make the claim," Brady said. "I think it could be a huge settlement."

Gibbs said the attorneys will receive up to $23 million in fees and $2.8 million for expenses.

The settlement covers GM vehicles with 3.1-liter or 3.4-liter V6 engines for model years 1995 to 2003; those same brands with 3.8-liter V6 engines for model years 1995 to 2004; and small trucks and sports utility vehicles with 4.3-liter V6 engines for model years 1995 through 2000.

Additional details on the settlement are available at http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html and http://www.dexcoolsettlement.com.

The deadline for submitting claims is Oct. 27 for states outside Missouri and a week later in Missouri, assuming the judge grants preliminary approval Friday.

[Superdave]

just grab a new Felpro metal top end gasket kit and have at it.. it's more than likely the LIM gasket. it's about a 1-2 hr job to replace it. Plus you can check the condition of the old one and see real quick if it failed around the coolant ports.

[RedZMonte]

cant you test the coolant to see if it has Carbon Monoxide in it? that would definaly show a bad head/gasket/block... I would be supprised if its a cracked block...

usually if you have one of thoes you will have the milky shyt in your oil (dipstick) wouldnt you? rather then in the coolant itself? I would never assume that anyone is smart enough to put the proper coolant in the car especially on a used car... who knows what was put in it. I have seen quick lube placed do the stupidist shyt... Including forget to put the oil in the engine on a "OIL CHANGE". this is why i dont go to thoes types of places.. You never know what could have been put in... Like mentioned above it could be from some sort of "Additive" as well.

S

[RedZMonte]

Also get a coolant flush done on the car as well.. Get the old Shyt out and fresh shyt in.

[SuzukiGhostRider]

I would assume people could tell the difference between Pinkish colored Dex Cool and Green Regular Anti Freeze,but, yea... maybe you're right Red.

[pbeck]

I had the same problem with the 97, 3400 that I bought last year. Turns out....for me the pcv valve was shot and was sucking oil like crazy, (1q every 1500 miles or so) when I changed that the oil leak went away but the coolant was still disapearing? Come to find out I tore the motor down and the LIM looked good, so I continued to the heads.....only to find out I had a head gasket leaking into the cylinder. I watch my gauges like crazy also and the motor never got hot while I drove it (note I only put about 2,300 miles on it before this happened) I cleaned the heasd up a little and there was NO cracks. To this day it still runs, no problems and I have put in the range of 15,000 miles on it.