gasket replacement ?'s

[97Cutlass]

I have a 97 Cutalss Supreme SL and it needs a couple new gaskets. First is the oil pan. Do you need to drop the sub frame to replace it? Is the tranny going to be in the way? The other gasket is the front engine cover gasket. I just did a head job on the car last year and just resently rebuilt the front end and noticed a small trail of water coming out from behind the front engine cover. Is the cover built into the oil pan? Does the oil pan have to come off? If the two parts are are connected to one another i guess i'll just have to replace them both.

[IsaacHayes]

Front engine cover? You mean the timing chain cover? If so coolant is routed through this and the water pump blade bolts into it. IIRC chiltons said you have to drop the pan to remove it or something... I'd look it up in a chitlons/haynes manual... I forgot what others on here said.

Mine leaked a little but has stopped now. It was minor and wasn't leaking into the oil. I'm leaving it alone as I heard from a trusted mechanic I know that the bolts are very long that go into the block and like to twist off....

I take it when you did head gaskets you put new LIM gaskets on and it's not those that is leaking right?

[97Cutlass]

The LIM gaskets are new. My biggest question is whether or not the tranny has to be removed to take off the oil pan. I thought I read it somewhere.

[bszopi]

In order to get the side mount bolts out of the pan, you either need to remove the engine from the trans or use some creative tooling to get up between the pan and tranny to get them. Its possible to do, but it is far from easy from what I have heard.

[Carlspike]

The timing chain cover isn't that bad. When I had mine off the hardest part was getting the crank pulley off, that thing was on there extremely tight. I've heard of bolts twisting off in the block also, but mine were just fine. They aren't very long but the ones with the 10MM heads are pretty thin so don't crank on them too hard. You do not need to take off or even loosen the oil pan to get the timing chain cover off, even though it says so in the chiltons.

[97Cutlass]

The timing chain cover isn't that bad. When I had mine off the hardest part was getting the crank pulley off, that thing was on there extremely tight. I've heard of bolts twisting off in the block also, but mine were just fine. They aren't very long but the ones with the 10MM heads are pretty thin so don't crank on them too hard. You do not need to take off or even loosen the oil pan to get the timing chain cover off, even though it says so in the chiltons.

Will I ruin the top of the oil pan gasket if I don't drop the pan? This will save alot of time if I can do this repair this way.

[John Michael]

Will I ruin the top of the oil pan gasket if I don't drop the pan? This will save alot of time if I can do this repair this way.

I had the dealer replace my timing cover gasket on my '97 Lumina 3100 last November ($600). They did not remove the oil pan, they said it could be done with the oil pan in place (even though the GM manual says you need to remove the oil pan).
Now, a couple months later, my car is leaking oil from the same place, I assume it is where the pan meets the timing cover. Frustrating! I haven't had time to look under it lately or take it back to them yet though...

[Carlspike]

I had the dealer replace my timing cover gasket on my '97 Lumina 3100 last November ($600). They did not remove the oil pan, they said it could be done with the oil pan in place (even though the GM manual says you need to remove the oil pan).
Now, a couple months later, my car is leaking oil from the same place, I assume it is where the pan meets the timing cover. Frustrating! I haven't had time to look under it lately or take it back to them yet though...

That dealer ripped you off! Even without air tools I had mine off in less than an hour.

You shouldnt have a problem with the oil pan gasket, but I would put silicone on the top side of that gasket and on the bottom of the timing cover, otherwise it might leak.

[tractorman]

Yep, when properly applied, silicon can work wonders. I haven't had the timing cover off my 3100, but I've taken timing covers off LOTS of engines without removing the oil pan. When you go back together, wipe the oil pan gasket real good, clean it with some brake cleaner so the silicon will stick (especially in the corners). Put some GOOD (not that cheap transluscent vinegar-smellin' blue stuff)silicon on it (especially in the corners! pack it in there a bit). Bolt it together and you should be good to go.

[Carlspike]

Oh yeah, make sure the silicone is oil resistant.

[97Cutlass]

Thanks for all the help!

[ljo1970]

reply to #4

There is no need to seperate the trans from the engine to get these bolts out. Break them loose with a wrench and they unthread by hand very easily. Just did a pan removal yesterday. It really sucked, not getting to the bolts but getting the pan out.

[bszopi]

You did it on a 3100? I won't argue that once you break them loose, they will easily unthread. I just have heard that it is difficult to get any wrench up inside there to loosen the side bolts due to the proximity of the tranny to the pan. Again, this is just what I have heard, as the only times I have taken the pan off of a 3x00, it was on an engine stand.

[ljo1970]

Yes, it is a 3100. Yeah its a lil tite, but much easier than putting a t-stat in an aztec "flate rate like"(did a couple at a GM dealersip i worked at).