2.8 to 3.4 swap question

[npdimonte]

Hi,
I'm new here, and I'm doing my first engine swap. I just picked up a 3.4L to swap out my 2.8L in my Fiero. But, the first thing that I noticed was that the oil filter is mounted to a 90 degree adapter on the 3.4L. On the 2.8L the filter mounts directly to the block. Is there a way to change the 3.4L so that the filter can mount to the block like the 2.8L? It seem like it just needs a simple threaded tube that screws into the block which the filter would then screw onto. Can I take this screw "thingy" off of my 2.8L and put it on my 3.4L?

The reason I ask is that I have to relocate the starter to the other side, so it would be nicer if the oil filter wasn't right next to the starter.

Thank for any info you can provide,
Nick DiMonte

[bszopi]

Yes, the 90 degree adapter can be unmoutned from the block and the normal nipple for mounting the oil filter can then be attached.

[npdimonte]

Yes, the 90 degree adapter can be unmoutned from the block and the normal nipple for mounting the oil filter can then be attached.

So, the "thingy", as I called it, is referred to as a normal nipple. Sounds better.

Do I need a special tool to remove/install this nipple from my 2.8 to the 3.4?

[bszopi]

And nipple is such a great word anyway...

When you take off the oil filter, look inside the nipple and you will (should?) see a hex shape. Basically you should just need a pretty big allen wrench to remove the nipple from the block.

[geoffinbc]

Yup just use a 10mm allen wrench. A 3/8" one will work if it is not too tight.

[npdimonte]

I like it when it that simple. Since I don't have 3/8" allen wrench, I just buy a 10mm. That way I won't hurt the nipple.

Thanks all!

[neo71665]

No you don't wanna hurt your nipple.

I got one out back that has a hurt nipple in it but the hole in number 2 cylinder wall bothers me more.

[powerdoctor]

A couple things I will add here ....

If this is the fwd 3.4 ....

1, the front cover needs the hole filled where the lower hose comes in, there is a small hole for coolant behind this litle hole in a 2.8, but not in the 3.4 fwd.

2, you will have to grind a little off the block to get the lower hose to clear with the old cover.

3, the lower intake hits the roller lifter retainers, take a little off each end of each retainer, its not needed anyways, you will see what I am talking about when you go to mount it up, just use some dykes and snip it off.

4, the 2.8 is externally balanced, the 3.4 is internally balanced, so the 2.8 balancer will not work on the 3.4 , you can either grind the little "bump" off the inside of the balancer, or use a 93 3.4 rwd balancer even though it has the crank position sensor ring on it.

5, as stated above, about the balancing, you will need a neutral balance flywheel from a 3.1 manual as well, or flex plate if it is an auto.

6, uas a ohm meter and test your injectors ohm rating, they should be a "high ohm" ( 12 + ohms) then find or buy a set of 3.4 injectors ( 93 rwd f-body 3.4 , or equivelant 3.4 inectors ) that have the same ohm rating so you don't smoke the stock injector driver in the pcm.

7,instead of using the stock 2.8 oil pressure sending unit "line" that routs it up to the front of the engine, plug it into the block and lengthen the wires to reach it in it's new spot.

9,use the 3.4 oil dipstick and tube.

10, the piston sit above the deck of the block and might hit the heads .
I have seen the top of the pistons shaved down to fit, without any issues, or just buy some deck hieght pistons for it.

If this is a rwd 3.4 you are using, you need the starter relocation mount for the starter.
everything else should be the same betwwen the 2.8 fwd and the 3.4 rwd, no pistons , no holes to fill, just use the nuetral balanced flywheel/ flexplate and balancer.

Any other questions just ask...

By the way, check this out... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2564404
This is one of my rides.

[npdimonte]

A couple things I will add here ....

If this is the fwd 3.4 ....

1, the front cover needs the hole filled where the lower hose comes in, there is a small hole for coolant behind this litle hole in a 2.8, but not in the 3.4 fwd.

2, you will have to grind a little off the block to get the lower hose to clear with the old cover.

3, the lower intake hits the roller lifter retainers, take a little off each end of each retainer, its not needed anyways, you will see what I am talking about when you go to mount it up, just use some dykes and snip it off.

4, the 2.8 is externally balanced, the 3.4 is internally balanced, so the 2.8 balancer will not work on the 3.4 , you can either grind the little "bump" off the inside of the balancer, or use a 93 3.4 rwd balancer even though it has the crank position sensor ring on it.

5, as stated above, about the balancing, you will need a neutral balance flywheel from a 3.1 manual as well, or flex plate if it is an auto.

6, uas a ohm meter and test your injectors ohm rating, they should be a "high ohm" ( 12 + ohms) then find or buy a set of 3.4 injectors ( 93 rwd f-body 3.4 , or equivelant 3.4 inectors ) that have the same ohm rating so you don't smoke the stock injector driver in the pcm.

7,instead of using the stock 2.8 oil pressure sending unit "line" that routs it up to the front of the engine, plug it into the block and lengthen the wires to reach it in it's new spot.

9,use the 3.4 oil dipstick and tube.

10, the piston sit above the deck of the block and might hit the heads .
I have seen the top of the pistons shaved down to fit, without any issues, or just buy some deck hieght pistons for it.

If this is a rwd 3.4 you are using, you need the starter relocation mount for the starter.
everything else should be the same betwwen the 2.8 fwd and the 3.4 rwd, no pistons , no holes to fill, just use the nuetral balanced flywheel/ flexplate and balancer.

Any other questions just ask...

By the way, check this out... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2564404
This is one of my rides.

This 3.4L is from a '95 Camaro RWD. I wanted a '93-'95 Camaro/TA to make this swap easy and to maintain the Fiero look.
Question:
1, Front cover (timing cover), is this an issue with the '95 RWD engine? I was planning on using the cover from my 2.8.

2, Is this an issue with the RWD?

3, Are you referring to the lower intake manifold of the Fiero 2.8L?

4, Since I have an '88 Fiero, I have a neutrally balanced flywheel, but the '95 3.4L came with one, so now I have a spare.

5, see #4.

6, Injectors came with the 3.4L, but I plan on getting them tested and matched.

7, Why should this be done? If the oil sending unit fails, my fuel pump may not be functional, in which case, pulling off the connector will allow me to get home. Putting the sensor down on the block will make it impossible to disconnect. Its just the way the Fiero engine compartment is configured. But I'm curious as to why this might be better.

9, plan to.

10, Since the Fiero has an L44 2.8L, the heads are Identical to the 3.4L. But since the 3.4L only has 90k on it verses 140k on the 2.8L, I'll retain the original heads for the 3.4L.

Regarding the starter relocation, I was planning on using www.rodneydickman.com 3.4L starter relocation jig. It cost $59 though, is that to high? is there something cheaper?

Also, I checked out your website, nice ride First time I've seen a trunk of a Fiero cut out for an engine swap. Nice custom interior!

This is my first swap, so I'm hopping to keep it simple by getting much advice from guys like you. Maybe one day I'll have pictures to post.
Thanks,
Nick

[powerdoctor]

I like to move the oil pressure sender for 2 reasons.
The first is they always fail at the press weld, and if you reloce it you won't get any trapped air messing with your signal.

Use the LIM from the fiero, not the 3.4

Use you 2.8 cover, the 3.4 has a reverse rotation water pump and won't work unless you add a pulley to reverse the rotation.

Thank you for the kind words about my fiero.

by the way, use the pan from the fiero too for the front cover.

[npdimonte]

I like to move the oil pressure sender for 2 reasons.
The first is they always fail at the press weld, and if you reloce it you won't get any trapped air messing with your signal.

Use the LIM from the fiero, not the 3.4

Use you 2.8 cover, the 3.4 has a reverse rotation water pump and won't work unless you add a pulley to reverse the rotation.

Thank you for the kind words about my fiero.

by the way, use the pan from the fiero too for the front cover.

I didn't think about the trapped air issue. I could just extend the wires with a plug which would allow me to disconnect it easily.

Didn't know about the rotation difference between the two. Thanks.

New question:
My cam in the 3.4L needs to be replaced. Since I'm planning on using the Fiero intake manifold, which everyone says is restrictive, what cam should I go with? With stock or with something that will give me some extra power (if possible)?

My 2.8L is rated at 140hp, while my 3.4L is rated at 160hp. I would like to get to 180hp, if thats even possible. I thought a cam would help along with the free exhaust porting. Any other thoughts while keeping with the Fiero look?

Thanks,

[powerdoctor]

The intake is actually very nice in my opinion, while that may not count for much around here, the throttle body is what is restricive.

I have ported the stock tb's with good sucsess and it helps alot for upper end.

You should not have a problem with the 3.4 cam.
I have had cams in the 500's on those stock obd1 pcm's and I have only had to adjust the idle.

Since your tps is adjustable, you can crack open the throttle and set the voltage ( I belive it was .5 volts at closed ) then modify the stop to get a true open throttle situation.

Set your timing @ 22 degrees at idle, thats what these engines/ fiero pcm's like for initial advance in my trial and error opinion.

[npdimonte]

So I don't have to port the intake manifold, only the TB?

It sounds like you ported your own TB? If so, how hard was it? What tools/machine did you use? How much did you port?

Is it worth buying the ported TB from the Fiero Store?

Thanks,
Nick

[powerdoctor]

I will make no comment other than the "store" tb looks sweet and is very shiney... I have never seen nor used one, and I think that tb is for obd2 cars only, your fiero one uses an external idle circuit, not internal like the obd2 cars.

I used a dremel to take it down and an 800 grit stone on a deglazing tool to smooth it out.

Take only enough to smooth it out, not so much the throttle plate can't seal it anymore.

[npdimonte]

Thats my concern about the throttle plate. I thought that porting would require a new plate. Does this really help if the body of the TB isn't bored out where the plate touches?