Getrag hard to put into gear

[Bratok]

Car: 1990 Cavalier with Bully Stage 2 clutch (no more than 20K on it)

It was hard to put into gear, especially on high RPM.
It wouldn't do it when cold, though, only after it warms up a bit.

The tranny and clutch fluid levels were a bit low, I topped it up and also sprayed some WD-40 on the shifter assembly as well.

This helped partially, but did not cure the problem completely.
2nd is the hardest one to go into, and sometimes 1st gives me trouble at a stoplight. I have to physically force the shifter into place (no grinding though). It grinds when putting it in reverse though.

After reading through the Haynes manual, it looked like the symptoms of hydraulical problems. I was unable to properly bleed the system, since there is no bleeder screw on the slave. Instead, we adjusted the clutch pedal with a spacer.

No problems engaing gears now; however, the clutch friction point is now waaay up from the floor, about 2/3 of the way up. Also, the pedal is now sitting all the way up to the pedal stop...

Is the clutch worn out, or is it a faulty slave/master? It still doesn't slip in any of the gears...

[Quinky]

I'd take your shim out.. you can reverse bleed the slave and master.. with a cavilier you can pull the whole slave and master assmebly out of the car all as one unit.. I'd do that and take it over to the bench.. make sure the fluid is full and slowly push the slave in by hand.. look for air bubbles.. you can do that a bunch of times..

I'd lean towards a faulty master and slave set up.. but it could be air... make sure there are no leaks also check the bushing that is between the clutch peddle and push rod for the master..

[geoffinbc]

Bleed the clutch in the car. Just try this. Take the cap off and fill the resivoir to the rim. Leave the cap off and make sure someone keeps an eye on the level. Pump the pedle like crazy. Any air will be forced out. I works all the time. Oh and be sure to be level as possible.

If this does not work I would suspect other problems. Make sure the master and slave cylinder are bolted in securly and there are no leaks.

[Quinky]

pumping the peddle like crazy can actaualy air rate the hydrolic fluid and make it harder to bleed.... when you pump the peddle like crazy you are forcing the air through the system down to the slave.. this wont bring the air back up to the resivior..

[Bratok]

Bleed the clutch in the car. Just try this. Take the cap off and fill the resivoir to the rim. Leave the cap off and make sure someone keeps an eye on the level. Pump the pedle like crazy. Any air will be forced out. .

I already did that as soon as I realized there is no bleeder screw... some air bubbles did came up in the reservoir, but this did not cure the problem (probably due to what Quinky said)

Make sure the master and slave cylinder are bolted in securly and there are no leaks.

No leaks.

I think I'm just going to order a brand new slave/master from AC Delco... 200 CDN, if this is really more likely a hydraulical problem rather than a worn clutch.

[Bratok]

Hetre's what Bully Clutch reps have to say:

you could possibly help your situation by inspecting your flywheel thickness in case its been resurfaced too many times. There is no known spec for this. All I know is that the pressure
plate mounting holes should have a fair size taper above the threads. If
you replace your flywheel, make sure to inspect the condition of your flywheel & clutch disc so it contacts the flywheel evenly. Install only a freshly resurfaced or new flywheel.

[geoffinbc]

pumping the peddle like crazy can actaualy air rate the hydrolic fluid and make it harder to bleed.... when you pump the peddle like crazy you are forcing the air through the system down to the slave.. this wont bring the air back up to the resivior..

Well I shouldn't have said "crazy" more like full travel right to the floor and do it for a while.

So many people with S-10's have had bleeding problems (we even have a bleeder screw) and after pumping it like 50 to 100 times the pedle firms up and all it good until the next clutch change.

[TurboSedan]

i bleed my clutch hydraulic system much like i bleed brakes.

- top off the clutch fluid reservoir
- knock the roll pin out of the slave cylinder and pull the line out of it. inspect the o-ring for damage while you're at it and replace if necessary
- remove the 2 13mm nuts holding the slave cylinder in place and remove it from the transmission. drain the old fluid out of it and set it aside.
- submerse the end of the hydraulic line into a clear container filled with new clean brake fluid
- have a friend slowly pump the clutch over & over again while you watch the dirty fluid and bubbles come out of the end of the line. make sure the end of the line stays submersed (doh)
- also make sure the fluid in the reservoir doesn't go too low while you do this and refill as needed
- continue slowly pumping the clutch pedal until no more air bubbles or dirty fluid comes out of the line. then tell your friend to keep the clutch pedal down to the floor while you fill the slave cylinder....
- hold the slave cylinder at a 45* angle and fill it up with new clean brake fluid.
- with clutch pedal to the floor pull the line out of the container and insert the end back into the slave cylinder. push the roll pin back into place. keep the clutch pedal to the floor until the roll pin is back in place
- top off the fluid reservoir and....
- test drive.

this has always worked for me. btw, i bought a new Raybestos clutch master cylinder back in the fall of '01 - it was about $95 from Checker IIRC. your problem may be the master cylinder or slave cylinder but hopefully it's just air in the system. good luck.

[Quinky]

i bleed my clutch hydraulic system much like i bleed brakes.

- top off the clutch fluid reservoir
- knock the roll pin out of the slave cylinder and pull the line out of it. inspect the o-ring for damage while you're at it and replace if necessary
- remove the 2 13mm nuts holding the slave cylinder in place and remove it from the transmission. drain the old fluid out of it and set it aside.
- submerse the end of the hydraulic line into a clear container filled with new clean brake fluid
- have a friend slowly pump the clutch over & over again while you watch the dirty fluid and bubbles come out of the end of the line. make sure the end of the line stays submersed (doh)
- also make sure the fluid in the reservoir doesn't go too low while you do this and refill as needed
- continue slowly pumping the clutch pedal until no more air bubbles or dirty fluid comes out of the line. then tell your friend to keep the clutch pedal down to the floor while you fill the slave cylinder....
- hold the slave cylinder at a 45* angle and fill it up with new clean brake fluid.
- with clutch pedal to the floor pull the line out of the container and insert the end back into the slave cylinder. push the roll pin back into place. keep the clutch pedal to the floor until the roll pin is back in place
- top off the fluid reservoir and....
- test drive.

this has always worked for me. btw, i bought a new Raybestos clutch master cylinder back in the fall of '01 - it was about $95 from Checker IIRC. your problem may be the master cylinder or slave cylinder but hopefully it's just air in the system. good luck.

that is one hell of a way of bleeding the system.. I never heard of that.. at least not with the master still in the car.. interesting..

[TurboSedan]

the part about removing, filling & replacing the slave cylinder came from the directions i got with the new Raybestos master cylinder, i just applied it to the slave cylinder too. bleeding the clutch system as if it were a miniture brake system just seemed like the thing to do while the slave cylinder was removed.