New brake booster/master?

[3.1POWER]

I want to put a different brake booster and master on my 94 L-body. The stock booster is really "fat" and takes up a lot of unecessary space in the engine compartment. It also has an ABS master... yea, wanna do away with that too. A buddy of mine had a 92 beretta (i have a corsica) that had a skinnier brake booster and a non abs system. The only thing is that the booster was larger in dia. Does anyone know if i can fit this setup in my 94?? It looks like the steering rack and/or wiper motor may get in the way??? If i cant put a different booster in, will the non-abs master work on that booster??

[HayesPerformance]

Hey,

I'd Call a brake shop, NOT LIKE MIDAS, etc. A specialty brake shop. I will say that you are IMO better off with the ABS removed. I do ABS system removals. The larger booster WILL make the effort need to stop less. You can get Just new guts put in the booster your going to use instead of a whole new one by the way.

Regards,
Dave

[z34phoenix]

are you out of your mind? if you want to get people killed keep doing ABS removals. ABS is there to make you stop faster. i guess you might have failed that section in physics class... the one about diff types of friction!

FYI if your brakes can trigger your ABS they are strong enough. Your abs is triggerd cause your tires are sliding.... and when a tire slides it has a lower level of friction... which doesnt stop you as fast. ABS quickly lowers the braking effort so that the tire begins turning again and can regain traction...alowing you to stop faster then if you were skiding!

i really cant think of a situation where you would not want the ABS? if your driving down the street it could make the diff between stoping or having your car total'ed. if your autocrossing it will help you from locking up the brakes and sliding into a cone. well one reason to not have ABS is if you want to play around with the car and get it to slide. but for that you can just pull the ABS fuse.


***runing without ABS isnt just putting yourself in danger... it puts everyone else driving around you in danger as well.***

[HayesPerformance]

How To Use Abs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABS DOES IF they know HOW to use ABS!!!

With NO PREJUDICE PLEASE CHECK YOU FACTS FIRST!!!!
I have my own opinion, I respect your opinion, and I'm NOT TRY TO START A FIGHT.
I care for you to check what the statistics are on the fatalities on how many people DIE in automotive accidents because NOT that the ABS DON'T WORK BUT THAT A SMALL PERCENTAGE (35%) KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY BRAKE WITH ABS. Go ahead and find out how many Professional drivers REMOVE THE ABS!!!!!!

The following is FROM A PAGE I HAVE ON ABS from the automotive safety council that was sent to many automotive shops and industries a few years back.

TO NOTE: I was stating that IMO he was better with out it IF he going to all that work all ready.

I WAS NOT TRY TO START A FIGHT OR A DEBATE!!!!!!!!

Ones view on ABS IS THERE OWN VIEW and I RESPECT THAT!!!!!




What you should know about...Anti-lock Braking Systems

ABS ... What is it?

ABS is an abbreviation for Anti-lock Braking System. It was designed to help the driver maintain some steering ability and avoid skidding while braking. Its intention was to help the driving ability of drivers because many individuals panic during a trying situation and end up “locking up” there brakes instead of driving out of a situation.

ABS was introduced in the mid -1980s and has become "standard" equipment on the majority of vehicles sold in Canada and USA. ABS in cars and most Multi-purpose Vehicles (MPV’s) works on all four wheels. This promotes directional stability and allows steering while maximizing braking.
The ABS in most pick-up trucks works only on the rear wheels, which promotes directional stability only. However, there are some available with ABS on all four wheels.

Anti-lock Braking systems were developed to reduce skidding and maintain steering control when brakes are used in an emergency situation.
However, cars with anti-lock brakes are up to 65% more likely to be in fatal crashes than cars without them, says a new US study. It appears that the problem isn't with the technology, it's poor driving habits and lack of driver awareness on how the brakes operate. Driver who rely on technology instead of better driving habits to improve safety are driving down a dangerous road. It is a FACT that most people do not know HOW to use ABS which HAS proved fatal.

ABS is dangerous for people who DO NOT know how to use ABS properly. Remember ABS is NOT found on most Professional race cars of all types and
is found as an OPTION on many “High End” performance vehicles because the majority of all professional drivers depend on GOOD driving skills to drive the vehicle in bad situations which when practiced is the safest and is lacking among many. It is noted that when many professional race cars are built from a "stock" vehicle the Anti-lock brake systems are removed because the
majority of the professional drivers prefer to depend on there carefully developed top skills, rather then on a electronic "helper" which can fail in a critical situation.

Since much of the problem stems from lack of awareness of how to use the brakes, education is needed. Here are Automotive Safety Councils tips on operating ABS-equipped cars:

In an emergency situation, apply your brakes hard and stay on them. The more pedal chatter the better.

Don't pump your brakes. Pumping is for standard brakes. It completely robs ABS brakes of their effectiveness.

Remember that ABS brakes do not help you stop quicker under most conditions. They do help you maintain steering control during braking so you can veer around obstacles.

The general rule of thumb is that if you have to avoid an obstacle, veer to the right. This way, you avoid oncoming traffic.

Don't become an over-confident driver because you have ABS. Drive prudently as you always should.

Anti-lock brakes are designed to keep cars from going into a skid when the brakes are applied in an emergency. Designed to allow the driver steering control, ABS brakes work by automatically actuating the brakes on and off during emergency stops. They are effective in helping drivers avoid accidents. In certain situations, ABS brakes can help to shorten stopping distances.

Control under heavy braking ABS allows you to maintain control of the vehicle. Since four-wheel ABS prevents all wheels from skidding, it allows you to steer the vehicle and still maintain braking.


How does it work?
ABS uses wheel speed sensors to determine if one or more wheels are trying to lock up during braking. If a wheel tries to lock up, a series of hydraulic valves limit or reduce the braking on that wheel. This prevents skidding and allows you to maintain steering control


How do I use ABS?
Apply steady and constant pressure - do not take your foot off the brake pedal until the vehicle has stopped and do not pump the brake.


What is that noise and vibration?
This is normal and indicates that the ABS is active. Various ABS sound or feel differently. Some of the effects, for example are:
a groaning noise
a rapid pulsing of the brake pedal
a periodic dropping of the brake pedal
a hard (non compliant) brake pedal
a light that turns on to say "low traction".
You should familiarize yourself with how your system functions by first reading the "Owner’s Manual" and then testing your ABS in an empty parking lot under various climatic conditions i.e. dry, wet, snow and ice.
Brake pedal will pulsate As the ABS engages, you may feel the brake pedal pulsating. This is caused by the system applying and releasing pressure to the brakes.
The noise associated with ABS when it is functioning should not be confused with brake squeal. If your brakes squeal under normal braking, this may mean the brake pads are worn and need replacing. A pulsing brake pedal every time you apply the brakes may mean warped brake rotors and/or seized brake calipers that require servicing.


Is the stopping distance shorter with ABS?
NO! From early commercials, it may have looked like you could stop on a dime. That instantaneous stop is NOT REALISTIC! When braking on dry or wet roads your stopping distance will be about the same as with conventional brakes.
You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.
A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer.


ABS warnings!
My ABS light comes on. What should I do?
When you start your vehicle an ABS indicator light will illuminate on the instrument panel for a few seconds. This is normal.
My ABS light stays on. What should I do?
This means the ABS is not working. However, the conventional braking system is working. We recommend that you take your vehicle to your nearest dealer for servicing as soon as possible.
My ABS light and my brake warning light both stay on. What should I do?
DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE! You have no brakes. Have it towed to your nearest dealer.



Road surfaces and ABS
Road hazards that will cause the ABS to function unexpectedly are gravel, sand, ice, snow, mud, railway tracks, potholes, manhole covers, and even road markings when it is raining. The ABS cannot make up for road conditions or bad judgment. It is still the driver’s responsibility to drive at reasonable speeds for weather and traffic conditions. Always leave a margin of safety.

[HayesPerformance]

I'll start a new tread so EVERYONE gets to read it.

Best Regards,
Dave

[Superdave]

ABS is for people who can't drive with standard brakes...

I've been driving in the Iowa winters for 10 years, every car i've owned has had standard brakes and i've never had a problem... recently my wife and I purchased a new grand am GT (2004) and that thing is the biggest piece of crap when it comes to winter breaking. ABS is useless on ice or snow covered icey roads.. if anything it makes you slide around more because your tires are constantly breaking and gaining traction. I can't count how many curbes i've ended up sliding into because the front end goes squirely.

With standard brakes you can control your slide alot better. Of course, cars with auto trannys aren't nearly as good in the snow as manual trannys either... maybe that's part of the reason the GT sucks.

Like i said in the other thread, the ABS in my 93 Z24 nearly got me in a bad accident the other day when it decided to engage while i was slowing down a hill.... Scariest part is that not 150' from that intersection is the mississippi river... during the winter i'd have been screwed

[3.1POWER]

ABS is meant only to provide directional stability and some steering control during heavy braking. It is not meant to and does not alloow you to stop faster. If you are incapable of letting off of the brakes when you start to skid and dont want to be, then yea, you should have a vehicle with abs. But if you are a avid, "spirited", driver, and are tuning a car, all abs does is add weight, take up valuable underhood space, and add unecessary expense to parts (axle shafts, etc.)