Help - Wobble in the steering wheel

[Schmieder]

Symptoms: Persistent wobble felt in the steering wheel. It matches vehicle speed, wobble speed. It goes away in a turn so it is only there driving straight. No thumping or grinding noise, no unnusual noise at all. It is less intense braking but still there. It is gone during hard accel but always comes back cruising.

I was already planning to upgrade the brakes so this was the time. I replaced so far....Rotors, Pads, Ball Joints. Rotated the tires with no change in symptoms. Bleed the brakes properly and broke them in, still wobbles in the steering wheel.

I suspect a tie-rod end but not sure. Steering and suspension isn't my strongest skill.

What can this possibly be?!?!

Side Note: It was severely worse earlier before ball joints and rotor/pads were replaced. It is possible the ball joint being bad broke something else?

Tie Rod, CV, Knuckle???
Please Help I am Stuck!

[pocket-rocket]

Grab the tire at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions and see if you hear a clunk when trying to make the tire turn as if you were rocking the steering wheel from left to right. If there is a good deal of slop and the sounds produced sound like right behind the tire, most likely it's a tie rod end. If you pop the tie rod end out of the knuckle, push it upwards towards the top of the wheel well. If it falls back down, you need new inner tie rods. Also, jack the car up and grab the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and try to do the same as you did for the tie rod check. If it wiggles in all directions, you need new hub/wheel bearing assemblies. As far as a bad ball joint breaking something else, the only thing I'm aware of that it could break (since it didn't break going down the road) is your tires/alignment. If nothing looks out of order, I would jack it up, remove the front tires and have someone sit in it, start it and put it in gear and let the axles spin while you watch them for abnormal movement. I would also have them turn the steering wheel from left to right as you watch (but watch your head ).

[Schmieder]

Grab the tire at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions and see if you hear a clunk when trying to make the tire turn as if you were rocking the steering wheel from left to right. If there is a good deal of slop and the sounds produced sound like right behind the tire, most likely it's a tie rod end. If you pop the tie rod end out of the knuckle, push it upwards towards the top of the wheel well. If it falls back down, you need new inner tie rods. Also, jack the car up and grab the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and try to do the same as you did for the tie rod check. If it wiggles in all directions, you need new hub/wheel bearing assemblies. As far as a bad ball joint breaking something else, the only thing I'm aware of that it could break (since it didn't break going down the road) is your tires/alignment. If nothing looks out of order, I would jack it up, remove the front tires and have someone sit in it, start it and put it in gear and let the axles spin while you watch them for abnormal movement. I would also have them turn the steering wheel from left to right as you watch (but watch your head ).

Hey, you got some great ideas there. I did have some wiggle from left to right (3&9 oclock) so I replaced the outer tie-rods just now. Now the wobble is almost gone. It's wierd because the wobbling gets better but it's still there. I was like, "Son of a &*()&*&)*!!!"

Since the wobble in the steering wheel is so minor now (but still enough to be wrong) I can detect a slight intermitence. I also noticed a wobble in my voltage from the alternator that seemed to sync up but not sure. Could there be a problem in my serpentine belt system causing a pulsation in my power steering pump? But my wobble in the steering wheel is only when going straight, no power assist turning.

Its like this driving...The alignment is slightly off to the left. As I drive I naturally "hold" the wheel slightly right to keep straight. It's at that point I can feel the pulsation in the steering wheel. Like its easier then harder then easier then harder on the wheel. If I take my hands off the wheel I can see it wobble.

I'll try some off those diagnosing tricks tomorrow.

Some one just mentioned sticky calipers. Have you ever heard of that before?

[walterdude]

Also,, if you threw a front wheel weight and have an out of balance wheel it can cause the front end to shake. On my 93 Z34 I had that problem a couple of times.. When I'd take my hands off of the wheel you could see it shake.. You say the car is pulling to one side,,, while you're having it aligned have them check the wheel balance...
Good luck,,,,
Tom....

[Schmieder]

Also,, if you threw a front wheel weight and have an out of balance wheel it can cause the front end to shake. On my 93 Z34 I had that problem a couple of times.. When I'd take my hands off of the wheel you could see it shake.. You say the car is pulling to one side,,, while you're having it aligned have them check the wheel balance...
Good luck,,,,
Tom....

I rotated my tires with out any change in symptoms. I too suspected a tire early on but no, not a tire issue. However, I am replacing the tires soon soo...no harm in trying just in case I wasn't able to distinguish between front/rear vibrations.
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Also guys, the pulling to the left has intermintent intensity. At one moment it is strong, at another moment it is almost not there.

The rear tires were in fantastic condition so I swapped them upfront after the repairs.

Replaced pads, rotors, ball joints, outer tie-rods, serpentine belt, power steering fluid, inspected the pump and lines, sub-frame/steering knuckle/ect are all secured tight.

How does the P/S activate to apply power assisted steering? Could I have a problem there with on/off activation causing a wobble in the steering wheel?

Ugh, what a PITA!

btw, when I remove the tire and do repairs, the wobble is gone at first but comes back after the first time I brake. It has done that while replacing the Brakes then Ball Joints then Tie-Rod End. So there is a clue, wobble is gone until I hit the brakes after a repair.

[pocket-rocket]

Hmmm. Did you hoist 'er up and have someone get in and run it in gear and apply the brakes? I wouldn't completely rule out axles yet, since there would be a different sort of twist applied to the axles while braking. Will it do it after you brake the first time, go into reverse and accelerate some, then go back into drive? Also maybe check out your A-arm bushings for rot.

[Schmieder]

Hmmm. Did you hoist 'er up and have someone get in and run it in gear and apply the brakes? I wouldn't completely rule out axles yet, since there would be a different sort of twist applied to the axles while braking. Will it do it after you brake the first time, go into reverse and accelerate some, then go back into drive? Also maybe check out your A-arm bushings for rot.

I will look into that PR, thanks.
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Well, no matter how hard or soft I drive/brake I can't get any noises out of the front end. Someone told me an axle, specifically CV joint, would at least make a noticable noise if it is at the point of wobbling in steering.

I do recall a bit of grinding sound coming from the front end on a quiet day driving. But it wasn't very noticable.

IF the wheel bearings are at fault would replacing new Ball Joints, TieRods, Rotors and Pads reduce the wobble in the wheel? It seems it may as it would reduce the amount of resistance the wobble is encountering with newer ball joints, ect.

I also noticed I still had some play in the driver front wheel after replacing the Ball Joint and Tierod ends. The Inner Tie-Rod tested ok and looked good.

Sooooo, in spirit of keeping my car running/driving nice I bought new bearings (wheel hubs). I spent the extra money for higher quality pair. $95 each and rented the tools to pull it. The darn tool rental was almost $200, more then the parts by a few bucks. Atleast I get that back in cash

I will replace the bearings today some time. If the wobble still exists there will be two distinguishable things I will have to do.

(1) Scream at my car and call her a little bitch!
(2) Start investigating the cause yet again....lol

And by then I too would suspect the axle. But I can feel the wobble in the frame of the car as well as the steering wheel. So that leads me to believe its the bearings and not the axle. Shouldn't any wobble in the axle be stopped at the wheel hub? Thus feeling it in the steering wheel but not the car itself....I don't know, I'll cross that bridge tonight after I replace the wheel hubs. Pretty soon my entire front end will be replaced, lmfao.

Thanks for the help so far PocketRocket!

[bszopi]

rented the tools to pull it. The darn tool rental was almost $200

What tools did you have to rent?? Everytime I've done it, it only takes like 3-4 tools, the main ones being a large allen head socket, and then the wheel nut socket. Oh, and a huge breaker bar.

[Schmieder]

What tools did you have to rent?? Everytime I've done it, it only takes like 3-4 tools, the main ones being a large allen head socket, and then the wheel nut socket. Oh, and a huge breaker bar.

I rented an Axle Puller Set with Slide Hammer and was able to pull bearings too. That was $140 and I also rented a set of Axle Nut sockets for 1/2" impact wrench 32mm-35mm and that was about $39.

I get all the money back for the tool rentals. Typically I might consider buying them to have for future use but I won't really be pulling bearings that often. It is not an investment like my air compressor impact wrench and air wratchet. My jack operates on a 5/8" bolt so I use the impact to jack the car up and down, really convenient.

I must say, I would not have got the drivers side off w/o those tools either. Especially the slide hammer, the rust lock to the frame was heavy. Those wheel hubs must have been stock 15 years old. I still have to change the passenger side yet. That slide hammer was pretty cool. It took a while, maybe 100 strong hits to break it free. I could only imagine the torture I avoided w/o the slide hammer.

[Schmieder]

Update: New bearings and there was a small wobble still left. Though the new bearings REALLY made a difference. The front passanger bearing was the problem. But noticing a small wobble still I looked closer and guess what I found........or what I didn't find. A weight on the passanger front tire rim, there was none but I did find the weather mark where it once was.

A friend had a weight the same size on a disabled vehicle. I tapped it on and gave it a spin round the block. Well, she drives great again. The steering feels so freaking great, it feels like it sticks the turns better now. If any one drove a 96 grand prix they would know how well it can hug a turn with high G's.

BUT, now my brakes are a little soft. They been soft since the pads were replaced. The bleeder port on the passanger calipers is stripped good. I can't loosen it to bleed the calipers properly. We tried bleeding from the hose connect banjo bolt but apparently it didn't remove air in the caliper pistons. So my passanger front brakes aren't engaging as they should.

I might remove the calipers and inject fluid with a small insert line hoping I can flush the air out that way, hold the opening top side and have a friend bleed the lines as I attach the banjo bolt. It will be messy but it should work. A quick work around until I can rebuild or replace the calipers.

Not lossing brake fluid, it's trapped air for sure. I even bleed the master cylinders up top side.

UPDATE FEB 7 2011 9AM:
Any one have a tricks or tips regarding stripped bleeder ports on brake calipers? <-- Fixed the caliper. I hack sawed the top and ground the sides for a vice grip. Using both screw driver and vice grips (plus spray bolt treatments and whacked with a hammer a few times) it eventually gave and came off.

I also realized I need to bleed the rear brakes as well since the master was emptied at one point and was bleed up top. I know have both front calipers locking in good and are set at home, if that counts for my vehicle.

So I am learning it is a PITA to bleed brakes if the Master Cylinder was emptied? I placed a vacuum hose over the bleeder valve and routed that to the reservoir and had a buddy pump the brakes until there were no bubbles plus some to be sure. I suppose this topic belongs in the brakes section....

[pocket-rocket]

With two people and bleeders that will come out, bleeding brakes is cake. The only time I will bleed a master is if it's a new one, then I will "bench bleed' it feeding it's output back into the reservoir. Otherwise I do a strait bleed, even if it's run out of fluid.

[Schmieder]

With two people and bleeders that will come out, bleeding brakes is cake. The only time I will bleed a master is if it's a new one, then I will "bench bleed' it feeding it's output back into the reservoir. Otherwise I do a strait bleed, even if it's run out of fluid.

Oh yeah, I since had found a pin leak in the passenger front brake line. I came to the leak conclusion when I noticed the main reserve loss fluid after a test ride. Since then I had replaced the line but will not get a road test until the manual is in.

edit: I thought bleeding wasn't the issue but at the time I had no other alternatives to pursue. I was sure I had not damaged the lines when I replaced the hubs. But the wratched had struck the line w/o me knowing it. Before I found the leak, I thought maybe a small air pocket but as we can clearly see now that wasn't the case.

Bench Bleeding, that's what I did.

[pocket-rocket]

Small side note, a new caliper should be fairly cheap for your car and fix that bleeder good,

[Schmieder]

Small side note, a new caliper should be fairly cheap for your car and fix that bleeder good,

Yeah, I agree. I do want to upgrade the brakes down the road. For both looks and performance. Seems logical to boost the braking ability if I'm going to have fun w/ 5-Speed boosted.