How about a RWD/4WD section?

[smilinguy99]

While it is true most 60° GM V6 engines were used in front wheel drive cars, there is a significant market for using these engines in hot rods, open track cars, re-motored british cars, and in kit cars like the Stalker V6, the Lotus7 look-alike.

There is a need for a place to swap ideas and info for RWD/4WD vehicles using this motor. This could be the place.

Thanks for reading,
sg99

[bszopi]

What type of area are you looking for specifically? The pushrod area can cover either aspect of the engine (FWD and RWD), as well as the tranny section covering either driveline. We have tried to make it as universal as possible. If you have something in mind as far as a layout goes, let me know. Right now I think we are universal enough to cover just about every aspect of the engine.

[Anonymous]

I'm with Brad. I think what we've got adequately covers both varieties, since with "hybrid" engines the line between what's a FWD engine and what's a RWD engine can be blurred. (ie, the_raven's Jimmy - using a mix of FWD and RWD parts)

[SappySE107]

A swap section keeps getting brought up, so where would we put it. This would be for all swap ideas, into cars or swapping parts between enngines. Its not going to be RWD or FWD....but everything swap related.

[Anonymous]

Why a specific section? I think that swaps would fall into general or performance of whichever motor it is. IOW, I like how things are now, forum category-wise.

[SappySE107]

ok, you can tell me then how much feedback ill get in the DOHC section for using 2003 3400 main caps.

[Guest]

I think a "swap section" may actually be a good thing, though, at the same time, I'm also not sure that this site would be the best place for such a forum, since most swaps would be chassis specific, which there are a lot of sites that deal with such, blending them together does have it's advantages though.....
I purposely look at other forums that deal with other vehicles for ideas for my own, both engine related and chassis related.
The decision would have to be made to decide if it would be a chassis fitment/swapping section or also deal with swapping parts between the engines themselves.
There could be the benefit of bringing a more diverse membership, that may only be looking for engine specific info on this site and forum, but by catering to the actual installation of these engines may help clear up some myths, or problems others face, in similar situations where thesolution may come from someone that does not nessisarily own the same vehicle, but had similar problems/issues and will share them.

I'm game.

Edit: I see I was a little late on adding my $0.02. LOL

[smilinguy99]

I am persuaded that you are all correct. There is probably no need for a special section of the forums.

However, it would be good to have some vendor links (perhaps as a part of the "Engine swaps" section on the main page) for those looking for special parts. There are also kit car mfgs. that specify this engine. Their inclusion somewhere would also be a good resource for people to use.

This is a very attractive motor for non-production vehicles like those I mentioned in my original post. The great majority of those projects are RWD. From the start, GM put this little jewel of an engine in cars that were heavier than 2800 lbs. However, this motor puts a lot of displacement in a small package and it fits nicely in some very light cars--some much less than 2000 lbs. The more people find it easy to use this motor in performance applications the more the aftermarket will take notice. Making it easy for folks to find the parts and solutions that exist for this motor will benefit all who use it.

My RWD project is not all that unique, but I've had a heck of a time finding the parts I've found for this engine. Two examples:

Bellhousing -- looked for a long time for a bellhousing to permit a FWD motor to be used on a RWD car without hacking up a production b/h. The FWD motor has the starter on the 'left' side and all the longitudinal RWD motors (I dunno about the Fiero) have the starter on the 'right' side. Finally put post up in transmission section looking for "two-pocket" production iterm, no joy. Just a few weeks later I found a company that makes just such a thing for this motor. $164. Nice folks too. The part is in transit right now.

Clutch -- looked around for somebody, anybody to make a 4.5" flywheel for this motor. Tilton said that they could do such a thing, but that the "engineering" of this part would cost over $1000. Other clutch mfgs. wouldn't consider it. Finally, found a company that would make the flywheel provided I could wait until their next production run of 4.5" units. Added benefit? This thing will work quite nicely with an stock automatic flexplate so there is a stock ring gear to engage the starter. $178. Production starts after PRI show. They can make larger clutches as well.

Non-production items that attach directly to this motor are kind of rare, but they are out there. It is just that they are not in the big name catalogs like Lakewood, QuarterMaster, McLeod, etc.

In case you are interested here are the links to these vendors:

Bellhousing and kits to adapt the GM 60° V6 to MGBs

http://www.killerbv6.com/

Clutches, Flywheels, Hydraulic T/O bearings and other drivetrain parts

http://www.powertraintech.com/

I'm still looking for many things I haven't found yet. I will find them, make them, or have them made. Ideally, a vendor who has worked out all the problems would be best and I would gladly pay for that development.

BTW, I'd like to say thanks to all the people who put this site together and work so hard to maintain it (and rebuild it in record time!) Your efforts are most appreciated even if people like myself don't say it enough. I've worked in volunteer organizations sort of like this before and while everyone has an opinion about how things should be done (myself included) very few folks seem to have the time and commitment to implement them (again, myself included.) Thanks.

sg99

[SappySE107]

You confused me with mounting a flywheel to a flexplate.

[Guest]

You confused me with mounting a flywheel to a flexplate.

I'm a little confused as well, along with the 4.5" flywheel.

For the bellhousing, depending on the actuall tranny you want to put behind you could use the '98 (IIRC) and up 2.2L S-10 bellhousing. Kinda late, but I didn't see a post asking about it.

[jeremy96gase]

Bellhousing and kits to adapt the GM 60° V6 to MGBs
http://www.killerbv6.com/

Dude! I've been looking for something like this for quite a while. Thanks SO MUCH!

[smilinguy99]

You confused me with mounting a flywheel to a flexplate.

When mounting a very small flywheel to an engine there has to be a way to start it of course, and making the flywheel 12" around just to mount the ring gear is defeating the whole purpose of a small, light flywheel, so you make the small flywheel without the ring gear and just stack a flexplate behind the flywheel. This gives you a package that has a very low MOI and starts the car with production components.

Hope that clears it up.

sg99

[Guest]

The part I don't totaly understand is why you'd want such a small clutch/flywheel package, I'm trying to find a way to put a larger diamater in mine to hold the power, I plan on making. I can understand the smaller diamater have a lower MOI, but I still can't see this working real well, unless I missed something, along the way...

[smilinguy99]

You confused me with mounting a flywheel to a flexplate.

I'm a little confused as well, along with the 4.5" flywheel.

The 4.5" flywheel (sometimes called a button flywheel) is used with 4.5" multi-disc clutches. Its major benefit is low moment of inertia. Much quicker acceleration.

For the bellhousing, depending on the actuall tranny you want to put behind you could use the '98 (IIRC) and up 2.2L S-10 bellhousing. Kinda late, but I didn't see a post asking about it.

Yeah, it is kind of late, but I'd be interested in learning about it anyway.

I assume the bolt pattern is the same, do you know which side the RWD 2.2L starter is on?

I'm putting a Ford bolt pattern T5 behind it. This pattern was used on 60° GM V6s in Camaros with 4.680" GM register bore size. The Camaros tilted the pattern 15° to the left. Might this be the same pattern used in the late model S-10s with the 2.2L motor? Hmmm...

sg99

[smilinguy99]

The part I don't totaly understand is why you'd want such a small clutch/flywheel package, I'm trying to find a way to put a larger diamater in mine to hold the power, I plan on making. I can understand the smaller diamater have a lower MOI, but I still can't see this working real well, unless I missed something, along the way...

This clutch I'm using is a 4.5" 3-disc clutch and it can hold something like 600 or 700 ft-lbs of torque. This number is far higher than I need of course, and a 2-disc clutch would actually work well with even lower MOI, but small clutches have very little heat soak capacity and the mfgr advised me to use the 3-disc owing to my lack of experience with clutches this small. 3-disc units will absorb a little more heat without damage. Little clutches need to be babied in some ways to eliminate heat build up:

• No slipping, just engage and go
  No holding the clutch pedal on the floor in gear with the motor running
  If you can avoid using the pedal for shifting do so

This is not a clutch for the street. Not at all. It will likely burn up in two blocks worth of rushour traffic.

If you want to learn more about the torque capacity of multi-disc clutches, go to the Tilton site and check their specs:

http://www.tiltonracing.com/pdfs/winnerschoice/pg26metclutches.pdf

sg99