Milzy Stage 2 dyno

[MMGT1]

Part throttle I am in good shape, not too bad anyway(reading around -7.-5 to 0 is my end goal which is good for a car with a cam like this!) You running the 36 lb injectors?? Do you have HP Tuners? If so, let me know just what you have(in the motor, intake, throttle body, exhaust, down-pipe, headers,... you get the idea) and I'll give you a tune to try.Also, did you put Milzy's transmission mount in? If not, trust me, start there. I would get the non polished one cuz' it's pretty hidden anyway, but if you want the bling, go all the way man!!!!!!!

[moonwell]

I'd love to look at your tune, only problem is that I'm running OBD1, not OBD2.
So I'm MAP not MAF. Tuning with tunerpro & an Ostrich for real-time
emulation. The cam messes with the vacuum a lot, so part throttle tuning has
been a pain. Not to mention my wideband just took a crap this morning.


All my mods can be seen here if your interested -

http://www.v6z24.com/registry/moonwell/2

You're running the 36lb injectors that Milzy sells? I really need to upgrade to
something bigger as I'm just running the stock M2 injectors right now. Do you
have a picture of what all comes with his kit?


Maybe you could send me an export of your spark table? I'm sure I can match
that up too my MAP vs your MAF values. I've been trying several different
options with the spark. I'm currently running a slightly advanced spark table
from the 3.4 DOHC motor above 1600rpm.

Thanks

[z24turbo93]

Milzy doesn't make sh*t for cavaliers man!! hp tuners what!!!! cavaliers are unable to run that! We get to use stock ecm or a whole new engine management system ( i.e. holley, haltech)

[SappySE107]

I wouldn't run 36# injectors on an obd1 setup. Idle will be a bitch. I wouldn't use 36# injectors on an NA 3400 either.

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, the 28lb injectors should be good for an NA 3400. Those numbers are very nice man! I can definitely see more with tuning. I have my redline set similarly at 6300rpm. Don't want to push the stock internals and trans too fast and that seems to be close to power peak as well for my boosted setup. Luckily these engines seem to have pretty good detonation resistance. Long time ago I dyno'd at just a little higher than that and stock injectors were maxed out. A/F got up in the low 14's and still didn't see any KR. Switched to bigger injectors and I'm running in in the 10.8-11.2 range now, so I have room to lean it out and make more power. I'd say high 12's to low 13's is a good target. I'm interested in seeing your end results after more tuning with a good NA setup like that. Keep it up.

[MMGT1]

The #36's will always give me room to grow. At 6400 I'm hitting about 56-58%.....still lots there for a turbo or whatever comes next, have yet really to decide. Think I'll end up with a little 75 wet shot kit for now, and see what I want from there, really don't know........

I was thinking with the 3400 swap that he may have had the MAF set up to go with the motor. Maf is nice for tuning idle, but completely useless for WOT tuning, only wide band for that. Thought I'd have mine this weekend but I guess next weekend it is.

[AaronGTR]

The #36's will always give me room to grow. At 6400 I'm hitting about 56-58%.....still lots there for a turbo or whatever comes next, have yet really to decide. Think I'll end up with a little 75 wet shot kit for now, and see what I want from there, really don't know........

I was thinking with the 3400 swap that he may have had the MAF set up to go with the motor. Maf is nice for tuning idle, but completely useless for WOT tuning, only wide band for that. Thought I'd have mine this weekend but I guess next weekend it is.

You got that kinda backwards, at least for obd2 cars. The MAF is certainly very important for idle quality. The 02 sensor input isn't used when it goes into open loop under WOT, but it still uses the MAF sensor input a great deal to adjust fueling even at WOT. That's why all the RSM blown cars with no MAF's run and shift so crappy. It's running in speed density mode and guessing at the fuel enrichment based on tables in the pcm instead of reading the actual airflow. Most of the powertuner users once they get fueling close with the IFR table use the MAF tables to fine tune fuel enrichment, so the MAF is most certainly still important for WOT tuning. A wideband 02 can't make fuel adjustments like the MAF can. It just gives you a more accurate A/F reading so it's a tool for making the tuning process faster and more accurate, but it doesn't replace a MAF.

[torq455]

agreed

[MMGT1]

The computer in our 6's do not look at the maf @ WOT. It locks in on the last fuel trim cell and carries that across the board. Thats why I spent so much time on the VE! Once in PE mode it's all about what the O2 readings are....idle and cruise,14.7(actual) PE,13.3(actual) and WOT 12.5(actual) Does sound like you guys know a bit about this crap too. I've spent hundreds of hours consulting with tuners through the HP site and have learned quite a bit on how our cars reference the vcm in there. Any help you guys want to anti up would be AWESOME!! The more info the better. And if you know any shortcuts that'd be nice too!

Paul

[sprucegagt]

Bwahahahahahah!!!!!!!

[AaronGTR]

The computer in our 6's do not look at the maf @ WOT. It locks in on the last fuel trim cell and carries that across the board. Thats why I spent so much time on the VE! Once in PE mode it's all about what the O2 readings are....idle and cruise,14.7(actual) PE,13.3(actual) and WOT 12.5(actual) Does sound like you guys know a bit about this crap too. I've spent hundreds of hours consulting with tuners through the HP site and have learned quite a bit on how our cars reference the vcm in there. Any help you guys want to anti up would be AWESOME!! The more info the better. And if you know any shortcuts that'd be nice too!

Paul

Um, you are so SOOOOO wrong on that. THE PCM DOES NOT USE THE O2 SENSOR AT WIDE OPEN THROTTLE! Thats why it's called open loop, it's not reading the O2 sensor and making fuel trim adjustments anymore and THAT is why the fuel trims lock. It uses the O2 for fuel trims, not the MAF. It uses the MAF for constant fuel adjustment by looking up fuel enrichment tables based on the airflow reading and it does this at ALL rpm and throttle positions.

ps. if this is the info they are giving you on HPtuners website, that's just one more reason why you should have got DHP.

[MMGT1]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. The wide band will give me the actual. I will look at my scan and see what the % out the tune is. Adjust tables until actual = commanded???? Make sense now??

[AaronGTR]

No I understand perfectly. What you said in your first two posts was wrong. Unless your english is different from my english. Your explanation of how the pcm works and what it uses to adjust fueling was incorrect. Don't know how to make it more clear than that. As I already said, a wideband is a useful tool for tuning (I have one) but it is only a tool. You are still bound by how the pcm works, so you have to take the info from your WB and apply it to how you adjust the tables in the pcm until you get the A/F you want. That's how you get the actual A/F to = the commanded A/F.

[torq455]

Thank You!!!!

[MMGT1]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7848

See if this works for you. If you have to, sign up to the forum and check out this thread. If you can make sense of this maybe you can help me out. The difference between the 8's the 3400's and the 3.8's had me "out in left man". Be nice if someone could put a definitive word to this!!!!