Arrrgghh! 3400 blues . . .

[prophiseer]

I'm needin to get a little better response from my beast, especially at cruising speeds. The 3400's always seem to be sluggish on the gettin-goin, but pull great once she's strokin down the road.

Anyways, I've concluded that my bored 60mm stock TB has got to go, I'm lookin into the 65mm unit, and possibly larger - but the hp budget is kinda tight right now. Any suggestions for a cheap, larger bore unit?

Secondly, the friggn heat we've had here is killer, and for some reason when it's anything over 80* outside, the motor is just really sluggish. I'm thinking of moving the air filter intake to the pass side fenderwell and running a long intake tube from the pass side to the drivers side in front of the condenser, and then back up and into the engine bay (as the CAI setups for the GA's), but not really sure if this is worth the hassel. I think having that long of a straight tube for the intake could really help speed up the high end air flow, but prob just wishful thinking Any opinions?

And thirdly, has anyone installed a high flow pump into the newer fuel pump assemblies and had problems with fuel pickup when the tank starts getting low? When it's down to about a 1/4 full, the car will damn near stall out from lack of fuel to the pump when you lay into it and everything sloshes to the back of the tank. I'm trying to come up with some kinda fuel pickup that can run from the bottom of the assembly to near the back of the tank, but with the unit installed there's only about 1/4" of space between the bottom of the assembly and the tank. Any suggestions?

[SappySE107]

You don't want to go larger than 65, as you will have a hard time taking off from a stop without whiplash. Also WOT will be about the same from 75-100% throttle. Put a 3500 plenum on there with the 65 and your throttle response will be better.

Im hoping to have the plenum spacers here soon, which might help with heat soak. Moving the filter to a location out of the engine bay will be the best way to go, even when its hot outside.

For the fuel pump, my high flow never gave me that problem. Sounds like the pickup is wrong or something,

[onefastV6]

I'm needin to get a little better response from my beast, especially at cruising speeds. The 3400's always seem to be sluggish on the gettin-goin, but pull great once she's strokin down the road.

Anyways, I've concluded that my bored 60mm stock TB has got to go, I'm lookin into the 65mm unit, and possibly larger - but the hp budget is kinda tight right now. Any suggestions for a cheap, larger bore unit?

Secondly, the friggn heat we've had here is killer, and for some reason when it's anything over 80* outside, the motor is just really sluggish. I'm thinking of moving the air filter intake to the pass side fenderwell and running a long intake tube from the pass side to the drivers side in front of the condenser, and then back up and into the engine bay (as the CAI setups for the GA's), but not really sure if this is worth the hassel. I think having that long of a straight tube for the intake could really help speed up the high end air flow, but prob just wishful thinking Any opinions?

And thirdly, has anyone installed a high flow pump into the newer fuel pump assemblies and had problems with fuel pickup when the tank starts getting low? When it's down to about a 1/4 full, the car will damn near stall out from lack of fuel to the pump when you lay into it and everything sloshes to the back of the tank. I'm trying to come up with some kinda fuel pickup that can run from the bottom of the assembly to near the back of the tank, but with the unit installed there's only about 1/4" of space between the bottom of the assembly and the tank. Any suggestions?

Your not going to find a cheaper 65mm TB than the one sold on the site. The quality is amazing and you can't really go wrong for the price.

As far as the CAI setup goes, I honestly feel that the stock system works well and filters better than a K&N style filter. Gains will be minimal with a CAI.

As far as the fuel pump situation check this thread out http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showp...&postcount=137


In my oppinion the best mods are Headers, catback, ported heads, ect.

If you really want to help performance on a budget, go ahead and get the DHP PCM they are now on sale for $100. If you want to go beyond that get the DHP Powr Tuner which runs $400 and you can rework the tune yourself as well as read an remove DTC's.

[prophiseer]

well, I'll be doin the 3500 upper end when I build up one of the other blocks I've got laying round the shop. In the next month, I've got a set of 3400 heads manifolds that'll be going on, all port matched and ported for better flow, plus the LS1 springs to go with it all and some other tweaks to the setup. It should be alright for now.

So do you think I should leave the 60mm TB on for the time bieng? Issue is, the motor just takes a bit to get the RPM up and going (the larger ports and runnrers on the 3400's flow better at high end than low cruising speeds). I might be able to tweak the fuel system and lean it out some, but I'd prefer to not do that.

As for the CAI, the filter already sits inside the fenderwell, here's a pic of how the setup looks:
so that much is good to go, I'm just thinking of lengthening the intake tubing and running it infront of the condenser over to the pass fenderwell.

question on yer pump . . . does the pump assembly sit in the tank towards the front or rear of the vehicle? Mine's at the front of the tank (brilliant engineering), although, come to think of it, if the fliter sock fell off the pump . . . it could do the same thing.

As far as heat soak goes, I'm running wooden penum spacers between the UIM and the LIM. There's practically no heat soak on the UIM when the motor is sitting between 5-10 min. and the rush of the intake air cools it back down very quickly.

here, to get a better idea of what I'm already running:
DHP 1.0 PCM
Doctorspeed stage 3 CAI with front bumper slots opened, header wrapped
60mm TB
TB collant bypass + heat shield (keeps the TB sensors a bit cooler)
UIM port matched to TB
wooden intake plenum spacers and heat shield under UIM
Taylor 8mm plug wires
ACDelco irridum plugs, .052" gap, indexed
Accel Delco-style DIS coils
Amoco Ultimate 93 octane fuel
Casper's fuel pressure regulator set ~46-47psi
Accel 19 lb/hr injectors
Edelbrock in-tank 67gph fuel pump
Super-stat 195F high-tension thermostat
Casper's hi speed fan control harness
AutoTrans tranny interceptor
Derale frame rail tranny cooler (1.5" between tranny cooler 'n condenser)
SLP cat-back exhaust
Bosch 02 sensors
P/S filter / heat sink

[SappySE107]

dr speed is overpriced for a cold air intake, tb coolant bypass is worthless short of just making it easier to pull parts off, accel coils suck ass (failed on 5 people at least), premium fuel is overkill for low compression engines, caspers FPR is more expensive than what I can offer but thats up to you. No clue on the edelbrock 67 gph pump but if you aren't doing boost or nitrous, your stick pump should be fine.

Id shorten your list to this

DHP Powrtunr
60mm TB
TB collant bypass + heat shield (keeps the TB sensors a bit cooler)
UIM port matched to TB
wooden intake plenum spacers and heat shield under UIM
Taylor 8mm plug wires
ACDelco irridum plugs, .060" gap, indexed
Derale frame rail tranny cooler (1.5" between tranny cooler 'n condenser)
SLP cat-back exhaust
Bosch 02 sensors

I dunno why you want a filter on your powersteering. Cooler is ok but i doubt you need that. Just replace your fluid with trans fluid.

[prophiseer]

dr speed is overpriced for a cold air intake, tb coolant bypass is worthless short of just making it easier to pull parts off, accel coils suck ass (failed on 5 people at least), premium fuel is overkill for low compression engines, caspers FPR is more expensive than what I can offer but thats up to you. No clue on the edelbrock 67 gph pump but if you aren't doing boost or nitrous, your stick pump should be fine.

just to clear up my earlier post, that's all stuff I'm already running
you're defi right on the dr speed CAI - bought that right after I got the car before I knew better
as far as the TB bypass and shield, I know there's no gains - but the heat rising off the exhaust crossover is bad news for GM sensors and I prefer to keep them cool as possible - cheap mods anyhow
93 octane fuel is alright for stock compression, and besides - it keeps the cylinders, exhaust and intake a hell of a lot cleaner than 87, plus lower sulfur content. Currently I average 28-29 mpg on the highway, and that ain't bad for a motor with over 140K miles on it; and anyways with the tuning on the DHP PCM, it's hard to get by with 87 or 89
again, your right on the FPR - but at the time I didn't know of a cheaper route (learned there is a cheaper way this last week )
So far . . . I haven't had an issue with the Accel coils, how long do they tend to last 'fore they go? I've still got the stockers in my tool box, though, just in case
As for the edelbrock pump (it's actually a Walbro, seriously - stamped on the side and shipped in an Edelbrock box, go fig), I just wanted to make sure the injectors stay at a steady pressure, and you need the volume for that, anyways stock pump failed, and it was cheaper to buy the pump motor through Summit (cheaper by about $150) and swap it.
Some of that crap is defi overpriced, and a bit overkill at the moment - but that will change as funds make themself available. Not looking at boost for the moment, but maybe a full turbo kit w/ nitro in the far future . . . we'll see.

[SappySE107]

Ah, didnt know you already had all that stuff:P The accel coils lasted a week for me. Ive read that they are better than they used to be but given what they do for you I wouldn't bother. Good thing you held onto the stockers just in case though.

[prophiseer]

sign of a mechanic, pack-rat for stock parts

[tejohnson]

Your problem with the pump not getting the fuel is due to poor venturi pump plumbing. See:

http://groomlakelabs.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1125

The venturi pump sucks the fuel up into the assembly so you can suck the tank dry. Hopefully I can get to it this week, and I will finish up the correct way to deal with the plumbing. I will also verify with an external power source pumping the fuel into a 5-gal gas can. See the following page, it is not just limited to the Grand Am's:

http://zzperformance.com/grand_prix/articles1.php?id=40

Which is in response to:

http://www.intense-racing.com/walbroinstall.html

[prophiseer]

outta curiosity, then, where is the venturi line supposed to run to?

Thanx to a slip of the hand with my fuel tank a while back, I ended up having to buy and aftermarket assembly and the venturi line runs into the line up and above the pump outlet (if I remember right).

I have another stock assembly that I plan on installing soon, the fuel level sender in the aftermarket assembly isn't accurate worth a damn (gauge reading 1/2 a tank means you've got about 3.5 gallons left, when it should be more like 7), and the stock sender isn't compatible with an aftermarket assembly.

[tejohnson]

See the brass tee with the small nipple and the rubber fuel line in the pic?

[prophiseer]

yeah; so what, it installs in the outlet tube between the pump and the assembly outlet?

Do they sell those brass fittings seperately, or should I hunt one down at a local plumbing store?

[IsaacHayes]

3500 plenum will help a lot. A new o2 sensor too helps throttle response. Lots of people say the 3500 hat gives them a boost on the low end.

[tejohnson]

yeah; so what, it installs in the outlet tube between the pump and the assembly outlet?

Do they sell those brass fittings seperately, or should I hunt one down at a local plumbing store?

I'd be extremely surprised if you could find that fitting at ANY plumbing store. If you can, let Ben know so he can start selling a Walbro kit lol

[prophiseer]

actually, I'll look into it for y'all. There's a store a block down the street from the shop that sells all sorts of metal lines, any size you can come up with. It's where we go for the plumbing lines and fasteners we use on the race motors that come through the shop. If they don't have it, they might be able to get it . . . we'll see.


I wanted to bring up another issue I've had since the install of the pump . . . Like I said with the aftermarket assembly, the venturi line is plumbed into the outlet line between the pump and the top of the assembly, but I plan on swapping back to a stock assembly due to issues with the fuel level sender . . .

Anyways, since the install of the pump motor into the aftermarket assembly, I've been fighting an irritating battle with 2 intermittent DTC's - a P0452 and a P0453. Both fuel tank EVAP codes that don't seem to affect performance at all, it's just irritating seeing a MIL pop-up outta nowhere. I'm hoping it's just a cheap aftermarket vacuum/pressure sensor on the assembly, but we'll see after the next swap. Anyone else had a similar condition?