rwd 3400

[96 century]

hello,
I made a post in the engine swap section http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=33714 with no response so i thought i would reword it in here.

What hang ups would i run accross if i took a 3.4 short block out of a camaro swapped in a 3400 cam and bolted everything form a gen III 3400 onto it?

Do they still make rwd 60v6? on this engine on ebay a while back http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMESE%3AIT it say the UIM was form a 2001 s10 extreme. I looked on ebay and auto trader and every 2001 s10 extreme that i found had a 4.3 in it.

Or even easier, can you use rwd motor mounts on the the gen III 3400 block?

Thanks in advance ~Josh

[tejohnson]

The eBay link appears truncated. You get an error page...

[96 century]

Ok, link is fixed.

[sharkey]

all rwd 660 were gen 1 motors. there never was an aluminum head 660 in a rwd application, and the 660 disapeared out of them altogether after 95.

now thats not saying one cant be built. you do have a couple options. a 3400 can be put into a rwd, but it takes some work. you would need custom motor mounts and have to move the starter to the other side of the block, or get the right bellhousing to fit.

another way to do it is start with a 3.4l f-body block, use a 3.1/3100/3.4/3400 crank, rods, 3400 pistons, and a complete 3400 top end. the motor would run off a 93-95 f-body pcm and wiring harness.

[RidgeRunner]

As to the S10 xtreme question - I read the listing to say that the throttle body is from that truck, not the intake manifold.

[geoffinbc]

The roller cam cannot be used in a RWD block without a special set of roller lifters that will work on a non priority main feed oiling system.

[94Camaro]

http://camaro.adwire.com/modpics

[ezrollin]

Though most everyone touts the fwd alum. head swap for the rwd 3.4 you can still make a s**t load of hp using ported iron heads,you need to decide if it's worth the extra trouble and exspense.

[94Camaro]

you will never be able to make the same hp/tq on ported iron heads.

i have aluminum heads on my RWD 3.4 - and i have almost as much rwhp / rwtq as James Montigny - who had over 3500.00 of engine work into his car, and made it into a 3.5L to boot. he had ported iron heads and 1.6 adjustable aluminum roller rockers (the expensive ones from crane) as well as a cam to match the airflow profile and even a LT1 Throttle Body attached to his plenum.

im making almost as much rwhp/rwtq as him, and i still haven't ported the heads (or tuned the car for that matter, James had a tune by ed wright).

the iron heads are a waste of time. aluminum is better

[ezrollin]

Never said they weren't better just not everyone wants to go to the exspence and trouble of the alum. heads !

[94Camaro]

edit: meh..n/m

[ignoreance]

Well aluminum heads are new and iron heads they haven't touched in over 20 years would stand to reason that of course the aluminum heads are going to flow more... And if you take account that then yes the heads are going to be superior.


I think if you already have The 3.4 SFI engine and trans then a top end swap is more productive because you don't have to go on a snipe hunt for computers and crap like that. But to me if you have a TBI forget it. Just port the heads and spend that money and time you would wiring, buying, on some other toys build the 80mph pocket bike or something.

[94Camaro]

Well aluminum heads are new and iron heads they haven't touched in over 20 years would stand to reason that of course the aluminum heads are going to flow more... And if you take account that then yes the heads are going to be superior.


I think if you already have The 3.4 SFI engine and trans then a top end swap is more productive because you don't have to go on a snipe hunt for computers and crap like that. But to me if you have a TBI forget it. Just port the heads and spend that money and time you would wiring, buying, on some other toys build the 80mph pocket bike or something.

actually? the 3.4L RWD ECM HATES this setup. the 3.4L engine had iron heads, so GM figured it could take a lot of spark advance. TO DATE: I have seen as much as 60* of spark advance hit the engine (like 4-5th gear on the freeway and then flooring it to boot) -- according to sources the aluminum heads can really only handle 30* max. I put in a custom grind cam and the engine freaked out and tried to just pump fuel into the motor (probably due to the better airflow), so right now from 0-3500 rpm the engine thinks i need a 10.5:1 A/F Ratio (confirmed by a wideband dynojet). after 3500 rpm the engine leans out the mix a bit to 12.5:1

i have a megasquirt, trying to decide if i want to find a extra wiring harness or just cannabalize whats on the engine already so i dont have to swap crap out.

maybe ill get an extra one just in case...dunno...still deciding...

[Joseph Upson]

actually? the 3.4L RWD ECM HATES this setup. the 3.4L engine had iron heads, so GM figured it could take a lot of spark advance. TO DATE: I have seen as much as 60* of spark advance hit the engine (like 4-5th gear on the freeway and then flooring it to boot) -- according to sources the aluminum heads can really only handle 30* max. I put in a custom grind cam and the engine freaked out and tried to just pump fuel into the motor (probably due to the better airflow), so right now from 0-3500 rpm the engine thinks i need a 10.5:1 A/F Ratio (confirmed by a wideband dynojet). after 3500 rpm the engine leans out the mix a bit to 12.5:1

i have a megasquirt, trying to decide if i want to find a extra wiring harness or just cannabalize whats on the engine already so i dont have to swap crap out.

maybe ill get an extra one just in case...dunno...still deciding...

I believe the added spark advance associated with the iron heads is an issue of thermal inefficiency, so the needed advance is not a performance plus but a necessity so that your airfuel mixture lights off at the proper time. Although MegaSquirt is a good engine management system for swops, it doesn't measure up to OE ECMs and PCMs when they can be properly tuned for the upgrade.

A lot has to be changed in the chip going from a PCM programmed for an iron head engine vs. aluminum, the spark tables are like night and day. What type of equipment are you using to help tune the MegaSquirt parameters?

[94Camaro]

I believe the added spark advance associated with the iron heads is an issue of thermal inefficiency, so the needed advance is not a performance plus but a necessity so that your airfuel mixture lights off at the proper time. Although MegaSquirt is a good engine management system for swops, it doesn't measure up to OE ECMs and PCMs when they can be properly tuned for the upgrade.

that is definitely something interesting to think about. The problem with ECMs and PCMs being more efficient is that there is no way currently on the market to do any kind of editing to the program stored in the 1994 ecm.

A lot has to be changed in the chip going from a PCM programmed for an iron head engine vs. aluminum, the spark tables are like night and day. What type of equipment are you using to help tune the MegaSquirt parameters?

The megasquirt comes with bundled software - read: megatune - that allows you to set parameters directly with a laptop computer hooked up to it (with a DB9 Cable).

The Megasquirt can be modified (As i have done) to run the DIS system and work in MPFI (i think thats right) mode. from what i understand, SFI + Megasquirt isn't a reality yet.

In addition to that i have two friends who are helping me with the install - one has installed it already in his 3.4L Camaro running a single turbo (with the iron heads) and the other can program memcal chips for the fwd engines. So between the two of them i should be able to come up with a pretty good tune and learn a lot in the process to boot.

oh, and fyi:
My answer was in direct response to the "it'd be easier to do this if you had a SFI setup already". because honestly i dont think anything about my setup is easier. granted i can use the car in its current configuration but it is by no means "perfect" - hence the use of the megasquirt. I didn't mean to come off as "this will solve all your problems".