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If things can go wrong it will, and it has. Enge evnts 2Date

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  • If things can go wrong it will, and it has. Enge evnts 2Date

    I was recently out in Indiana getting my engine tuned wi th the 3500upper intake mated to a '00 4.3Vortec 70mm tb. The TBadaptor is provided by speeddemon1312@yahoo.com. Well the difficulties included a leaking egr on the biggest port, and that resulted in fouled plugs due to such hard starting in the cold weather. The sad thing is that this egr has been leaking since the last time I had the car tuned. We were having problems with startup, the engine would idle and then die. Anyways the car did a best 15.4 last summer and that was with the old setup with a leaking egr on the big port. With these problems solve Ben was able to quicky get the car in tune for my dyno appointment....oh let me add that I broke my hood release handle and cable due to the freezing cold..... Anyways I'm happy to say that even with a foot of snow on the ground, I was able to to slide my way to the Shop, Exotic Performance Plus in Columbia City, Indiana. They used to be in Fort Wayne. A great group of people work there and there prices are pretty good. $180 for an hour and tie down, with that I got about 7 or 8 runs with wideband. Anyways the gains for the hour are pretty good, at elast I thought so. Peak gains were 10 hp and 10 ft-lbs. Average gains were 24 hp and 16 ft-lbs. the machine didn't print the highest number as it was to be so I filled it in. We'er looking at 171hp@5950 and 185ft-lbs@2600. Granted the numbers low but Mustang dynos do show lower numbers but they are great for there consistancy. With that Ben was able to effectively tune the engine. Alittle more time couldv'e been used but tfor th emoney you can't go wrong. I wasn't worried about the hardware..YET....as the driveline was all running cool and nothing out of the ordinary was wrong. I've said thast installing the 3500 intake made the engine very torquey well now its even more so. The throttle needs to treated like a NEW egg. By liberally romping on it, say 25% open, you'll light up the front end in a split second, its that responsive. Also it now chrips the tires on a 1-2 shift floored or any down shift into 1. The graph shows the production. The range of power, at 6844 the engine is still flat lining, kinda drops for a second and recurves up. We didn't get a graph up to 7000 but at least I know that there is power to had up there if I get the right hardware and alter the heads. Yeah these are Stock heads too. Reground cam with way too much lift....And Iron head pistons. Essentially alot stock parts. Anyways hands down this engine is much faster than it used to be and like the most responsive NA N6 I've ever driven. So once again ignoring te lowish numbers I think its fair to predict better numbers at the track. In all fairness, the engine with the older upper manifold did ok after a few months after tuning. I can only assume the engine finaly broke in as the motor did feel a bit more torquey. Anyways IMO this is the power band to have. Stellar bottom end that doesn't quit and a range all the way to 7000. I did do one test I probably shouldn've done but, I ran the car before to 140 and it was still pulling. Did that again after tuning and it was now pulling harder. Things really get too fast for me to go any faster(duh) at that speed but it shocked the shit out of me that this little pushrod engine had enough power to move a car weiging (with me and all my stuff) 3700+ lbs to that speed and still accelerate. Yeah I'm proud of that little engine till today....... Engine developed a rod knock this morning. 5 things make me think as to why, 2 are questionable and I might be paranoid....#1 constant fuel contamination due to the hard starting and stalling. #2 HV pump washed out my bearings. #3 Hard starting with cold oil in the cold weather accelerated the process this week, #4 K and N filter not filtering????, #5 Synthetic oil??? I've noticed for about a month, when I lug the engine the oil pressure drops about 5-10 psi. This has happend to me before and the crank went south. Shortly after when I replaced it the engine become more powerfull...I guess when this happens the crank literally moves away from the crank sensor there by throwing off ever so slightly the timnig signal, replacing the crank should yet give me even more power. I will rebuild. Why? I don't know... because I'm crazy enough to love my car enough.....The performance was starting to kick ass, my 4T60E transmission (that I rebuilt) kicks serious ass, and the engine gets 33mpg avg on the plains!!!! The exhaust is new and it's 2.5 inch from manifold to mufflers mandrel bent thick aluminized pipes with Gibson Stainless steel rectangle slash cut trucky tips(I remember someone asking me if I had a Gibson exhaust, I laughed and said well that would be a nice but hell hasn't frozen over yet) bolted to Hooker Aero Chamber Mufflers that sounds imo perfect, suspension is very good, and the brakes work, A/C is ice cold, its a great car for running cross country and for tearing up NYC with....I love it I need to fix it. Yeah I can buy another car, but they don't sound like this(like a Tug Boat at cruise and like the Red Baron at WOT) and have full gauges!!!!! I got dyno videos the will need to be posted. Well.. I guess I'll go and get that Camaro legal. Not for nothing I do need alittle V8 in my life right now....Despite the snow and ice.....LOL ANYONE HAVE A GOOD SOUND CRANKSHAFT SO I CAN BEAT MY ENGINE WITH IT??? HAHA you thought I was going to install it!!! GUESS AGAIN!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh christ I'm losing it....Someone call Calgon to take me away!!!

    Dyno Sheets- http://60degreev6.com/backup/Lorenzo/Lorenzo%20Dyno/

    Dyno Videos. All pulls made from 30 to 125 mph in 3rd gear which is 1:1.

    Lorenzo
    '11 DODGE Challenger R/ T Classic 57M6 Green with Envy "Giant Green Squid"
    '92 PONTIAC Grand Prix SE 34TDCM5 "Red Lobster"

  • #2
    RE: If things can go wrong it will, and it has. Enge evnts 2

    Oh geez, rod knock! Thats just wonderful. I got a crank you can use to beat the shit out of the engine, but thats about all its good for:P
    Ben
    60DegreeV6.com
    WOT-Tech.com

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: If things can go wrong it will, and it has. Enge evnts 2

      Ben if you could up load those vids I'd really appreiciate it.com
      Lorenzo
      '11 DODGE Challenger R/ T Classic 57M6 Green with Envy "Giant Green Squid"
      '92 PONTIAC Grand Prix SE 34TDCM5 "Red Lobster"

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: If things can go wrong it will, and it has. Enge evnts 2

        Just never ends does it!
        Nice numbers, but sucks about the knock. Sorry to hear it.
        Franz

        1990 Z24-NA 3.1L
        14.72 @ 92.24 MPH
        14.89 @ 94.92 MPH

        The boost is coming....

        Comment


        • #5
          how much exactly did u gain from the tb and the plenum? i noticed the exact same "crack of the whip" response too. what did they do to tune the car? do u have AFPR?
          [SIGPIC]
          12.268@117... 11's to come!
          turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
          ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

          Comment


          • #6
            I tuned the computer on the dyno No AFPR used. Not sure if he has a dyno with it before and after but the tuning difference will throw off any fair comparison. I will have a flowbench comparison for the site shortly (already have small runner and larger runner differences, now for the 3500 plenum once I find some longer bolts).

            I do not recommend the 4.3 TB as it is too much for any sort of part throttle resolution. It feels like just off idle to 20% throttle.
            Ben
            60DegreeV6.com
            WOT-Tech.com

            Comment


            • #7
              another thing I'm thinknig is that I've been using Clevite77 bearings everytime I wear out a crank.The last time I used Aluminum bearings are they were still good after I pulled the motor and tor e it down. I'm wondering about this trimetal setup if it can take a beating.
              Lorenzo
              '11 DODGE Challenger R/ T Classic 57M6 Green with Envy "Giant Green Squid"
              '92 PONTIAC Grand Prix SE 34TDCM5 "Red Lobster"

              Comment


              • #8
                i was having a problem with the tb at first too with the linkage, but i worked that out. as for the idle, i die grinded out a huge hole in the tb for the iac and a little in the adapter so its smooth into the plenum. it idles fine for me...
                [SIGPIC]
                12.268@117... 11's to come!
                turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
                ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

                Comment


                • #9
                  All I know is from the seat of my pants the car feels more powerful and from how the transmission has been dealing with it. But officially I can't say if I gained anything because I went to the dyno with the 3500 manifold already on. The response might be too high for a 3400 but I'm sure it would be excellent for a 3100. But I really don't mind the "crack that whip response" , esspecially now it gets nose end of my car in a tizzy during WOT shifts into and out of 1st gear. If you ask me it's just more power for off the line. I mean hell for all I know it might be more of the manifold's the design then the TB being too large. I've heard that the 3500 is naturally a very snappy little motor. For idle I had to remove one of the center rivits to get the minimum air.

                  I've checked the valvetrain only to find nothing wrong with it and my canister purge lines were undone, thus throwing my car back into stalling fits yesterday. Anyways, I'll be removing the engine sometime next week and replace the crank. I havent decieded if I should go back to a stock oil pump...As of now I have an HV in there.
                  Lorenzo
                  '11 DODGE Challenger R/ T Classic 57M6 Green with Envy "Giant Green Squid"
                  '92 PONTIAC Grand Prix SE 34TDCM5 "Red Lobster"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IMO the TB isn't to large, our engines can use more air, hence the reason people have been able to find such gains with P&P jobs on our engines

                    remember, internal combustion engines are air pumps, the more efficiently you can get the air in and out of the engine the more power your going to make

                    you can go to big (and decrease velocity) but i do not believe 70mm's is to large, more like just right (with supporting mods of course) IMO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Please tell me what you are basing your opinion on. Have you driven a car with this setup? You don't even know until you do. A single 70mm tb is too much.
                      Ben
                      60DegreeV6.com
                      WOT-Tech.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        unless it hesitates its not to large.... i have yet to get my hands on a 3500 UIM swap car to see


                        im just basing that off my limited automotive experience

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry to hear about the rod knock. That fucking sucks man. Rebuild it.
                          Colin
                          92 Sunbird GT, 3200 Hybrid 13.99@ 95.22 (2004)
                          90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 10.54 @ 129mph.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why don't we take a moment and look at Franz's dual 52mm TB set up. I think THAT'S too much. 70mm TB with a lot of mods is stretching the limit, but i think it be ok.
                            Andy

                            sigpic

                            fastest 1/8: 10.19@ 67.17
                            fastest 1/4: 16.16@ 82.70

                            62mm TB, 1.6 roller tip rockers, Ostrich 2.0, UD pulley, TB heater bypass, K&N, 180* stat, No cat, 99Grand AM dual cooling fans. 4T65E swap FDR 3.69, EP LSD, F.A.S.T. transmission controller, TransGo shift kit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              each half can still only see a 52mm TB though, so its not the same thing as a single 70mm TB to all 6 cylinders. It may be too big but you can't really compare them and come to a conclusion.
                              Ben
                              60DegreeV6.com
                              WOT-Tech.com

                              Comment

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