Some parts too look at (Valvetrain)

[Canyonero]

Can you also use the 2.2 Cavi seals on the '99 and older? Does it matter with the 3400 vs. the 3100. I was under the impression that the '96-'03 3400s were all the same.

I got the 2.2 seals for mine, which is a '98 3400. Will I have these problems? (I have not assembled them yet)

[tejohnson]

Sorry, but did you guys read above? The problem is that they are 1999 heads (that is, unless they were switched long ago when I had them ported and polished). [perhaps that was my first question, am I mis-identifing these heads? What is the OD of the valve guides on 2000+ 3400 heads?]

The OD of the valve guide is .512 for both the intake and exhaust. I did get the 3.1 MPFI seals (Felpro Part Number: SS72685), however, it appears the exhaust seals (70819) are too big. Given the identical sizes of the exhaust and intake guides at .512, the intake seals (93734) should be perfect. I just don't know if that is the same seal that is in the 2.2 cavi seal kit. Will be making a trip to NAPA here in the very near future.

[bszopi]

Ok, so... does it matter if they are 3100 or 3400 heads for the year split? If they are 99 3100 heads, there is a good chance they are different from 99 3400 heads. I know the castings are different -> http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25040

[Canyonero]

Ok, so... does it matter if they are 3100 or 3400 heads for the year split? If they are 99 3100 heads, there is a good chance they are different from 99 3400 heads. I know the castings are different -> http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25040

I didn't word that right. I'm asking specifically about the valve stem and seal combination. I know the ≤99 and ≥00 3100 heads are different. But ≤99 and ≥00 3400 heads will all work with the 2.2 seals, right? There was no change on the 3400...

[tejohnson]

The intake valves are 1.76", and the heads have D shaped ports. The part # that is cast in the front of each head (over the plug holes) is: 10218170

EDIT: Interesting Google results: http://www.pera.org/articles/eb120220.htm

[Canyonero]

Interesting indeed. I'll check mine out when I get home.

[tejohnson]

Well, it would appear I might have found a workable solution for these specific heads. Since it is a 8mm OD valve stem, and .514 OD valve guide, the Fel-Pro seals with the part number SS70710 should do the trick. The package includes 12 seals ranging from $20-$25 depending on the store. RockAuto.com says they are for the following applications:

CHRYSLER DAYTONA (1990 - 1993)
CHRYSLER DYNASTY (1988 - 1990)
CHRYSLER GRAND VOYAGER 2000
CHRYSLER GRAND VOYAGER SE 2000
CHRYSLER LEBARON (1990 - 1993)
CHRYSLER LEBARON GTC (1991 - 1995)
CHRYSLER LEBARON LANDAU (1992 - 1994)
CHRYSLER LEBARON LE (1993 - 1994)
CHRYSLER LEBARON LX (1991 - 1993)
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER (1988 - 1989)
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER LANDAU (1988 - 1989)
CHRYSLER TC MASERATI (1990 - 1991)
CHRYSLER VOYAGER 2000
DODGE CARAVAN (1990 - 2000)
DODGE CARAVAN C/V (1989 - 1995)
DODGE CARAVAN ES (1993 - 1995)
DODGE CARAVAN LE (1987 - 1995)
DODGE CARAVAN SE (1987 - 1997)
DODGE DAYTONA (1990 - 1993)
DODGE DAYTONA ES (1990 - 1993)
DODGE DAYTONA IROC (1991 - 1993)
DODGE DYNASTY (1988 - 1993)
DODGE DYNASTY LE (1988 - 1993)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN (1994 - 2000)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN ES 1993
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN LE (1988 - 1992)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE (1988 - 1997)
DODGE MINI RAM (1987 - 198
DODGE RAIDER 1989
DODGE RAM 50 (1990 - 1991)
DODGE RAM 50 SE 1991
DODGE ROYAL MINI RAM 1987
DODGE SHADOW 1993
DODGE SHADOW ES (1992 - 1994)
DODGE SPIRIT (1990 - 1995)
DODGE SPIRIT ES (1989 - 1993)
DODGE SPIRIT LE (1990 - 1992)
DODGE STEALTH (1991 - 1996)
HYUNDAI SONATA (1990 - 199
HYUNDAI SONATA GL (1990 - 1997)
HYUNDAI SONATA GLS (1990 - 1997)
MITSUBISHI 3000GT (1997 - 1999)
MITSUBISHI DIAMANTE 1992
MITSUBISHI DIAMANTE ES (1993 - 1996)
MITSUBISHI MIGHTY MAX (1990 - 1994)
MITSUBISHI MIGHTY MAX SWB 1992
MITSUBISHI MONTERO (1989 - 1993)
MITSUBISHI MONTERO LS (1989 - 1994)
MITSUBISHI MONTERO RS (1991 - 1993)
MITSUBISHI MONTERO SPORT (1989 - 1990)
MITSUBISHI MONTERO SR (1992 - 1993)
MITSUBISHI SIGMA (1988 - 1990)
PLYMOUTH ACCLAIM (1990 - 1995)
PLYMOUTH ACCLAIM LE (1990 - 1991)
PLYMOUTH ACCLAIM LX (1989 - 1991)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER (1994 - 2000)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER LE (1988 - 1993)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE (1989 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH SUNDANCE DUSTER (1992 - 1994)
PLYMOUTH SUNDANCE RS 1992
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER (1990 - 2000)
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER LE (1987 - 1995)
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER LX 1994
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE (1987 - 1997)
TOYOTA CELICA SUPRA 1986
TOYOTA CRESSIDA LUXURY (1983 - 198
TOYOTA SUPRA (1982 - 1985)

Quite a few. Below are some comparisons with the Intake seal (93734) from the part number SS72685 (Intake being the seals that I had no issues with).







Old on top of new to eyeball the difference:



The measurements (while not attempting to expand the rubber):
Top ID: .275
Bottom ID: .500

This seal has the same amount of depth and contact as the old. I went this route simply due to efficiency. I could have bought two packages of the SS72685 and only used the intake seals (93734) which means ~18.00 wasted, unless you could sell the others. The part number 93734 appears to be discontinued, and you will not likely find them individually.


Any thoughts?

[AaronGTR]

I didn't word that right. I'm asking specifically about the valve stem and seal combination. I know the ≤99 and ≥00 3100 heads are different. But ≤99 and ≥00 3400 heads will all work with the 2.2 seals, right? There was no change on the 3400...

Nope. They changed the outside diameter of the valve guides on the 3400 heads in mid 2000. That is the issue with the seals. The earlier 3400 heads had smaller OD guides and have to use the 3.1L valve seals. The newer 3400 heads have larger OD guides and have to use the 2.2L valve seals. The diameter of the valve stem never changed. Thats the same reason the LS1 spring seats will fit on pre-2000 heads but on post 2000 heads the center hole has to be ground out slightly or they won't fit over the valve guide.



I think Todd must have got a set of later heads by accident maybe? My car had the early size guides and I used the 3.1 seals and they are all still on the guides. As for the reason for the two different part numbers on the 3.1 seals, I'm not sure. They are exactly the same size and have the same size hole in them. The ones I got from GM are two colors though (black rubber and orange rubber) and the only reason I can think of is the rubber is a slightly different compound in each to make the rubber compliant and/or heat resistant to seal best in a given heat range, since the exhaust valves are hotter than the intakes. iirc the orange ones where the exhaust seals and most high temp o-rings and such are orange or brown. Just a thought.

[Superdave]

This seal has the same amount of depth and contact as the old. I went this route simply due to efficiency. I could have bought two packages of the SS72685 and only used the intake seals (93734) which means ~18.00 wasted, unless you could sell the others. The part number 93734 appears to be discontinued, and you will not likely find them individually.


Any thoughts?

you can go to Napa and buy just the intake seals, that's how i've purchased the 2.2L Cavalier exhaust seals several times. I actually just did that a few weeks ago for a set of 00+ 3400 heads.

[tejohnson]

I think Todd must have got a set of later heads by accident maybe? My car had the early size guides and I used the 3.1 seals and they are all still on the guides. As for the reason for the two different part numbers on the 3.1 seals, I'm not sure. They are exactly the same size and have the same size hole in them. The ones I got from GM are two colors though (black rubber and orange rubber) and the only reason I can think of is the rubber is a slightly different compound in each to make the rubber compliant and/or heat resistant to seal best in a given heat range, since the exhaust valves are hotter than the intakes. iirc the orange ones where the exhaust seals and most high temp o-rings and such are orange or brown. Just a thought.

Aaron, I have 99 heads. And no, the package of 3.1 seals (two different colors) are really two different seals with different sizes. Pull out a calliper gauge and measure the bottom inside diameter up near the "top or 8mm" opening.

Although I gave the casting info previously, there is also a "98" cast in small print to the far right side of the head, on the same side the part number "10218170" is. These are the 99 heads that I pulled off my 1999 grand am to have ported and polished by Street Arsenal back in the day. I verified this by earlier pics when I first removed the heads, and some casting marks in those photos.

you can go to Napa and buy just the intake seals, that's how i've purchased the 2.2L Cavalier exhaust seals several times. I actually just did that a few weeks ago for a set of 00+ 3400 heads.

Unfortunately I tried (as mentioned above). You can not get those Fel-Pro seals individually any more for the 99 heads. (SS93734, or just 93734, or simply 3.1 intake valve seals by themselves) It appears the part number was even discontinued. Napa is the first place I tried. Also tried Autozone & Advance Auto Parts. Checked online too. If someone else has more luck than me, cool.

So, with all that said, do you all feel there is a problem with the "replacement" seals I found? (that were designed to work with a .514 guide and 8mm valve stem)

[Canyonero]

Looks like I have the 10218170 casting, so I will be needing different seals. I already bought a set of the 2.2L seals, if anyone wants them...

[tejohnson]

Looks like I have the 10218170 casting, so I will be needing different seals. I already bought a set of the 2.2L seals, if anyone wants them...

For the 2.2 seals, do you have the dimensions? I think they were in a hard casing too, but I was under the impression they were for a larger valve guide. (for the 2000+ heads)

[Canyonero]

I measured seals I have, they sure seem the same to me. But I don't usually know what the hell I'm talking about:

Intake (felpro 70816)
.480in guide
.292in stem

Exhaust (felpro 70819)
.480in guide
.292in stem

[tejohnson]

I measured seals I have, they sure seem the same to me. But I don't usually know what the hell I'm talking about:

Intake (felpro 70816)
.480in guide
.292in stem

Exhaust (felpro 70819)
.480in guide
.292in stem

Those look the same size. Odd, do all the seals in that package look the same? See the pic below (click on it for high resolution). The seals in the package I have are entirely different visually:

[tejohnson]

Oh, too funny. I just noticed the box of seals you have. Those are entirely different seals Two different part numbers, 4 of each. So, did you buy 2 boxes or something?

The 70819 seal was my problematic one. It easily stretches out with just the caliper, so I can only give a min/max range. The measurement range is .480 - .540. That (almost brass colored) band around the seal does not seem to do the trick very well. The one that held on good is .475 - .520. It has the same type of band (only silver), however, the actual seal size is definitely smaller.