3400 Camshaft

[bszopi]

How are you planning on getting some of those numbers anyway?

Milzy really didn't do all the work that you think he did. He happened to be in the right place at the right time as a company. Chris White and 3x3 did the majority of the work in getting a company to create the cores. There is a really long story behind all of it that most people do not know.

But, that is over and done with and not Cam Motion is the only place doing them and Milzy has the connections.

[tejohnson]

Chris White and 3x3 did the majority of the work in getting a company to create the cores.

That's what I had thought... I had a few discussions with Julian (3x3) on this. I put in a request to Cammotion for giggles...

[BlackJack]

Noone asked him to do it? I guess you are right.

Yes I am.

But damn he did all the research himself and such and actually got a company to make the cams when noone else would.

you dont know what you're talking about

So cammotion is the only company that will do them and you have to get them through milzy

nah, you can be a sheep, I'll wait.

who spent an assload on research and money up front to cammotion to get these made

wrong AGAIN on both counts.

I am in no way affiliated with cammotion or Milzy.

again, proof from your own mouth that you dont know what you're talking about.

and you are complaining like a queen? GTFO homo. STFU!!! Noone asked you for your ghey ass opinion Too many whiny ass queers on here.

little princess.....you talk really big for someone who can hide behind the internet. I can argue all day with idiots like you online, but it takes that special person to get an invite to continue the discussion in person. I doubt that face to face you would approach the subject with the same attitude. When you speak of "man up and grab your balls", that's big talk from someone that doesn't have any. After you prove that you're man enough to back up that mouth of yours, then maybe others will listen to you. Until then, go back to playing dressup, dollies and tea party.

[SappySE107]

Don't expect a reply from him, as I have banned him. I have warned him in the past to watch his attitude. I warned him 11 days ago for this thread and then he continues. I have no problems with differing points of view but you must do better than insults on this site.

[BlackJack]

but you must do better than insults on this site.

Sorry man, I'll try and curb it.

[eliteweapons]

Hey guys the way I see it is. He found something others needed and no one else was making at the time. Offered a service and wants to get paid for jumping on it. No problem, buy it if you want it or don't. Sounds like somone trying to fill the supply and demand while making some cash. I do understand the beef about higher prices for different stages thou. Hey its the same blank and they don't charge any more to grind it smaller or bigger. Thats my take on the deal anyway. Technically it should cost more to grind down a smaller cam because it takes more time to turn it down on the lathe.

[Froggx]

I guess since I stumbled in I should share how I'm seeing this.

First I want to say that in no way is this post meant to establish any negative feelings against any 3x00 aftermarket providers. I greatly appreciate anyone whom makes and sells aftermarket parts to this community. They are doing a great thing for our engine.

With that said, the specs for a reground cam leave you with some pretty good room to modify your timing. My cam is proof of offset grinds happening, I have a regrind with a 114 LSA. My cam card should be floating around here somewhere if anyone would like to call bs on it. Unless my memory fails me, I've seen videos of 3x00's with a cam regrind that could barely idle it pulled so little vacuum. These cost less than $200. Most of the time the cost is closer to $100.

On the other hand you can buy a cam core from milzy. It's said his specs are posted, but I sure as hell don't know them and I sure as hell can't find them. I've been known to be a retard when using this site's search engine and even without that fact it's not idiot proof anyway. So for at least $400 I can get what to me is mystery cam stage 1 and stage 2. I think I'll stick to my regrind for the time being.

However, if I was building an all out naturally aspirated race motor that needs a cam beyond what a regrind can give me, then I would call Milzy for a custom core. I see no reason why a forced induction application would want one of his cams though. Neither do I see a reason why most any street driven NA application would want one of his cams.

Also, I find the "you'll need new pushrods for a regrind" argument to be mostly irrelevant. Brad has made it clear that you can run at least 1 regrind on stock pushrods and not have the valves meet the pistons. An even stronger point against this argument, at least in my opinion, is that if I'm paying $400 for a crazy ass custom cam and the associated valvetrain mods needed (mostly stronger springs I believe), there is no way in hell I'm going to use the stock pushrods even if they had the ideal geometry. I could imagine something bad happening everytime I raced the engine with a setup like that.

If someone were to come up to me and tell me they were about to spend $1500+ for heads, cam and intake (assuming they do their own labor), I would tell them to stop, set that money aside for a month, and go home and do an hour of homework researching forced induction for that month. If after that month they still feel that the $1500 head cam and intake is the best choice, then in that case it most likely will be the best thing that person could do.

Remember, I'm just providing my opinion, not flames or insults so I hope nothing I said here is interpreted that way. If you think I'm a moron than let me know. However, let me know constructively because I only appreciate getting flamed when I'm starting fires first.

[BlackJack]

Also, I find the "you'll need new pushrods for a regrind" argument to be mostly irrelevant. Brad has made it clear that you can run at least 1 regrind on stock pushrods and not have the valves meet the pistons. An even stronger point against this argument, at least in my opinion, is that if I'm paying $400 for a crazy ass custom cam and the associated valvetrain mods needed (mostly stronger springs I believe), there is no way in hell I'm going to use the stock pushrods even if they had the ideal geometry.

Remember, I'm just providing my opinion, not flames or insults so I hope nothing I said here is interpreted that way. If you think I'm a moron than let me know. However, let me know constructively because I only appreciate getting flamed when I'm starting fires first.

If I come off like a know-it-all, I don't mean to, because that's not the intent. I may be wrong about this, but in my experience, a regrind usually requires longer pushrods to make up for the loss of base lift from the original lobes on a regrind. If the regrind is mild enough, I imagine stock pushrods would be useable. But since the idea behind a regrind is better performance numbers, I would recommend getting better pushrods anyway, so might as well get them made in the correct length.

Not flaming, just representing what I learned as an alternate point of view.

[SappySE107]

It is always ideal to check the ideal pushrod length for your motor and then order those length pushrods. I would go with a larger pushrod if you are worried about deflection. With stiffer springs and higher ramp up rates on the cam, I wouldn't want to run stock pushrods either. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. You also have to consider the heads and if they have been decked. Just makes it more clear that you should not count on using stock pushrods.

There are a few sites that have custom pushrods. I know crane does it with a good turn around time as well.

[tejohnson]

Crane is good about a turn-around time, I am just not too happy that there is up to a .015 variance between the pushrods. I went with heavy-wall, heat treated, cromolly pushrods since I was beefing up the valvetrain, and knew I was going with a different cam.

The variables are stock rockers vs. full rollers that require guide plates, and a stock cam vs. a custom grind with a max of .475 valve lift. I felt it would be safe to get these pushrods regardless of which route I went with the cam, and had them heat treated in the event I decided to use other rockers that required guide plates.

Yet I have spoken with Cammotion recently, and I was not told to "See Milzy" yet. I was told they did finish my recommendation, but they mentioned something like .530 for the lift! After this, I gave them even more information that could proove beneficial in helping with a recommendation, and mentioned to them my max is .475 lift due to it being a forced induction application and having springs that would likely bind at higher lifts.

It is possible that 3400 folks are also being turned away because they are not capable of providing all of the information necessarry for cammotion to give a good recommendation. Rather, they defer to known specs, or someone that is reselling cams for this car, for them, hence a referal to Milzy.

[JMo60]

http://60degreev6.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=7675&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

this is the milzy cam specs that i posted before, they were e-mailed to me directly from milzy

[AaronGTR]

On the other hand you can buy a cam core from milzy. It's said his specs are posted, but I sure as hell don't know them and I sure as hell can't find them. So for at least $400 I can get what to me is mystery cam stage 1 and stage 2.

His specs aren't posted on his site but people who have got his cams have posted the specs. You get a complete spec sheet from cammotion with it so it's in no way a mystery cam. Many of the people installing these cams though don't know that much about cam specs and aren't able to choose their own so they go with milzy's stages because they know it works.

And btw, incase some people didn't know, chris white was involved with talking to cammotion at first, but he barely did anything before he dropped the project. Others may have been involved, but milzy was the one who got it done, and yes we did ask him to do this. Sure he didn't do all the developement work for it, but he spent a fair chunk of change. He had heads ported and flow benched in order to determine the best cam specs to use and he tested different springs to see what lifts would work, and he DID put up the money to buy the first batch which was the biggest obsticale since cammotion wouldn't even make the cores if they didn't have a minimum number ordered.

I see no reason why a forced induction application would want one of his cams though. Neither do I see a reason why most any street driven NA application would want one of his cams.

Why would anyone with an Na street driven car want a cam? Thats the dumbest question I've ever heard. A lot of people use these cars as daily drivers but still like to take them to the track, and they like them to be faster on the street. People with his stage2 cam and head package have run high 13's in the quarter, which for a 99+ nbody at least is a record. As for the boost question, you obviously don't drive a boosted car do you. There's a point you get to where even with boost you can't get any more air thru the cylinder head at the stock lift and all you do is make more heat and compression in the intake manifold. At some point the stock cam becomes a limitation and needs to be changed to make more power.

[Also, I find the "you'll need new pushrods for a regrind" argument to be mostly irrelevant. Brad has made it clear that you can run at least 1 regrind on stock pushrods and not have the valves meet the pistons.

Brad was also using that cam in an older engine. I don't know what rockers he was using on that, but the newer engines that came with self aligning rockers weren't height adjustable and automatically set the lash on the lifters. If you put in a cam with a shorter base circle and didn't increase the length of the pushrods you stand a very good chance of having the pushrods pop out of the rockers, especially since they also didn't have guide plates. At the least you wouldn't be getting the full amount of lift from the regrind because it wouldn't push the rockers up as far.

Remember, I'm just providing my opinion, not flames or insults so I hope nothing I said here is interpreted that way. If you think I'm a moron than let me know. However, let me know constructively because I only appreciate getting flamed when I'm starting fires first.

Definitely don't think you're a moron... you raised some good points. I just don't think you were considering all the different engines people might be using these in.

[tejohnson]

Well, received a recommendation back from Cammotion:

Grind Number:
X2161-2032-14+4

Duration (intake/exaust):
214/208

Lift (intake/exaust)
531/512

Lobe Center Separation
114

Intake Centerline
110

Comments
WE do not have anything with the lift that you are wanting with the dur that you need. Thank you

So unfortunately, there it sounds as if they can not produce a recommendation that includes lifts below .475, so I may as well stay stock. Perhaps this is why Crane recommended I stay stock to begin with Also, when I talked to them on the phone yesterday, I was told I would need to pass the recommendation off to Milzy Motorsports, and pay them for the cam...

It is interesting how Federal Mogul does a more accurate job in posting the specs for parts than GM does...

Stock Sealed Power Cam (CS1569)

Duration (intake/exaust):
195/196

Lobe Lift (intake/exaust):
0.2727/0.2727

Lift (intake/exaust):
0.4363/0.4363

Lobe Seperation Angle:
112

Intake Centerline:
DOES ANYONE KNOW THIS?

[SappySE107]

I will be sending a stock cam off to get the specs (per degree) soon. Im going to contact the place that does it tomorrow and let them know im sending it.

I don't know why they can't grind a cam with .475 or less lift. Makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can buy a blank and have it ground by someone else?

[TurboZ24]

What does cam motion do about the drive gear on their cam blanks? Do the press on a iron drive gear? or do they machine the gear into the cam.

I don't know about a more stock application, but my cam with a billet steel drive gear will literally eat the stock oil pump drive gear and not leave a single scratch on the cam gear.