3400 Camshaft

[onefastV6]

I don't think any of Milzy's products are going to make your car go "Boom", unless your engine isn't in good condition or the parts get installed incorrectly. I do however feel that he could have worked with a few customers to get some before and after dynos, which would have benefited himself in the end.

There are many companys that will pay or offer their products or services at a discounted rate for a customer that will dyno for them. So I don't think there should be any excuses for him.

Also when charging over $1,000 for a set of heads, you would think that they would provide flow #'s on their site.

[BlackJack]

agreed. I dont mean to sound like an @$$, but when there's no numbers available on a cam for example, and you got someone running say, 1.7 ratio rockers (just as an example), and those cams are generated assuming stock ratio, I think they're gonna want to know exactly what kind of lift and duration is being put out so you dont get your valves trading places with the piston face.

So, yeah....it's possible for Milzy's stuff to make your car go boom even if you have the best of internals.

[Guest]

Cam specs have been posted before. And I wouldn't call a cam a "chintzy" mod.

Some people are investing a lot of money in their engines yes, but how much have you invested or are you another one of these big talkers that have big dreams but no cash that think they know everything?

[tejohnson]

He is in the middle of investing

[BlackJack]

Cam specs have been posted before. And I wouldn't call a cam a "chintzy" mod.

Some people are investing a lot of money in their engines yes, but how much have you invested or are you another one of these big talkers that have big dreams but no cash that think they know everything?

This must be my lucky day, I get to add another idiot to my collection.

So what you're saying is that you can just throw any old cam in, and it should work just fine? hahaha, take a look at your statement about big talkers that think they know everything, then take a look in the mirror, and notice the similarity?

I will never claim to know everything, and I will never insinuate that I THINK I know everything. Now if you're done flexing and trying to showboat, goahead and read my previous post. My point is, not every cam is good for every application, and if there's no dyno numbers, how can you assume that the HP production of just the cam will suit your needs, give the powerband that you desire, etc....

Now do you understand, or did you have something really smart that you wanted to add?

[bu01]

milzy just upped the prices on his cams. 399 for 1 and 450 for stage 2


WTF

We've been doing some cost analyses on some items, and found that on some things, we've been either not making enough profit, or in some cases not making anything or losing money. Because my prices on most of my products are as low as they can be, sometimes prices have to go up when the cost to produce them goes up. The stage 2's went up $50 to allow for some profit margin on a product where I was actually losing money. The stage 1's are priced cheaper to encourage more people to buy them, since not many people opt for the Stage 1 cam. So I'm sorry for the price increases, but this is sometimes necessary from time to time when I'm selling things as cheap as I can.

[BlackJack]

nice to know bu01, and thank you for reinforcing my opinion of the whole Milzy/cam thing.

Cammotion quoted $380 direct, for ONE cam, pretty much whatever grind I want, not $x for a stage one, or $y for a stage 2. Now a re-distributor should get a volume discount if half a brain was involved, so as to bring the customer the best deal possible. If not, then it's not the customer that's important, it's lining the pockets at the customer's expense.

So, given that ALL the cam blanks have been bought up from what is being said, that leads me to believe that someone is greedy to corner the market on the cams, believing that soon, people are going to be so desparate as to pay that insane markup.

In actuality, watch for people to get together and find another source, costing business that would have netted some profit, rather than none.

Anyone who's all for it is welcome to it.

[onefastV6]

ZZP is offering parts for the 3400, as of now they seem just have started, however they sell a high volume of 3800 parts and have somewhat of a good relationship with Comp Cams. I am sure that ZZP could influence comp cams to make cams for the 3400 and sell them at a lower price. ZZP's Comp cams sell for $299 so I don't see why a 3400 cam should cost much more to produce.

When looking at Milzy's pricing, it seems a little steep for most 3400 owners. Yes I understand that performance costs money, don't get me wrong there, but when you are talking around $1,830 for just heads, intake manifolds and a cam I think that is very expensive considering I can get ported heads, a reground cam, and ported manifolds at a shop that I know of for $500. Some will question the work because it is fairly inexpensive so I will have them bench flow the heads before and after to see the improvements.

[BlackJack]

onefastV6, that's a excellent point, and I'm all on pins and needles waiting to see what ZZP is going to do in the cam realm if any.

I've squeezed alot of HP from alot of different engines, even 450hp from a air-cooled Volkswagen. I'd never heard of cammotion till the 3400 scene. Comp Cams however, have a large enough business that I'm sure their assets can allow for a reasonable price on a 3400. I know that some of the basis for high price is that they're billet cams, but if Comp Cams can offer 299 billet cams all day long for every other application, I'm sure they can do close to the same for our LA1's.

Now that I'm through ranting, I'll get back to putting my "no cash" into my "big dream".

[geoffinbc]

Some of the people in our community have already been in touch with COMP. They did show interst in the begining but it all fell through. Its a shame because they would sell for sure. Obviously not as much as a smallblock cam. But hey they would have pretty much all of the market share since only people in the know have ever herd of cammotion.

[BlackJack]

true, and you know, I think alot more people would buy cams if the price wasn't so high.

How many times you hear about somebody in the V8 world talking about a "budget build-up" which normally includes a mild cam, mild head work, perf. intake, and mild fuel delivery increase (that should cover both carb and injected, yeah?)

In our world, the price of that cam doesn't fit into what most people consider a budget build. My build is a "wee bit" beyond what most consider a budget build, and I still think that cam price is outrageous.

It would be nice for the "average joe" with a 3400 to be able to buy an entry level package that would include a mild cam, intakes and a little programming, for around $500 after core exchange.

[badz24s]

$400 is a lot of money for a cam for these motors. is the price this high because these are steel cams? If comp would just go ahead and start producing blanks, it would be great. You can get a custom grind cam from them(even them suggesting a grind) for less than $200 right now. This is what i did when i rebuilt my 3.1 and i am really happy with it(but that is an iron cam). I told them what i wanted the car to do and that is exactly what i got.
I don't think I will buy a cam from milzy or cammotion(if they ever sell them again) when I rebuild the 3400 that i have. I guess I will just have comp re-grind it.

Stephen

[BlackJack]

actually the problem is by comparison, the 3100/3400 market is kind of small against the more popular markets like (gawd I hate this word) ricers, and the 90* v6/v8's.

The cam company will obviously have to go through the trouble of "tooling up" for the particular cam, research lobe spacing, journal locations, timing mechanisms (if any) etc. to make a blank or billet. To them it's not worth it for as small of a market as there seems to be.

In order to get them to do it, you have to prove to them that they're going to sell alot of cams and make it worth their while, and what they dont realize is that alot more people would consider buying a cam if the price was lower. That's a major inhibitor, aside from the mechanical hassle that they may see it as.

Your average amatuer probably will not tackle taking down the front end to replace the cam. In alot of cases, the engine has to get raised having to disconnect alot of stuff, now the intakes gotta come off, rockers, lifters get pulled, it's no-longer a quick performance upgrade to the unexperienced.

For that reason, alot of them will have to take it to a mechanic, and with having to pay a "professional" (which has unlikely ever messed with internals on a 60*v6) and has to factor that into the cost. Overall in order for there to be a high market for it, there has to be cost-effectiveness. Kind of makes it a vicious cycle.

[geoffinbc]

Umm I would not say $400 is bad for a roller cam. My buddy paid $380 for his cam in his 4.3L. It was a Crane Cam and I even got my staff discount. So for regular joe it would be alot more. This is in CDN dollars so I guess it is a bit cheeper than Milzy. But the 4.3L cams have been out for more than a decade now and they are still expensive.

[BlackJack]

yeah, alot does depend on application, agreed. But I still just can't imagine the average person being able to justify $425 plus shipping, plus cap it off with the mech price (one of the reasons I started building my own stuff years ago).

I think the entire HP industry has gotten greedy overall. Some are just more greedy than others.