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  • The official 3500 thread. pics.

    picked up a 3500, Took it apart on tuesday night and took some pics.

    Here's what it all looks like.

    3500 on crate, my 3400 on the stand.


    Block:








    underside of 1/2/3/4 bores.


    underside of 5/6... Oil squirter. Only reason I can figure for only 5 and 6 getting the oil squirter is that years back in the 3100 dessiel piston slap days 5/6 were the two culprits of slap and colapsing. Possible GM's remedy for piston slap from these two cyls. However why not all cylinders? Who knows... GM does odd shit. Wouldnt be hard to fab a hardline to work a squirter system to feed all 6 though.




    3400 block bore spacing:


    3500 block bore spacing:


    I had thought I had read something at one point about how GM moved the camshaft up in relation to the block to gain more room for the larger bore. So I measured both blocks
    3500:


    3400:


    Nothing has changed there in terms of the cam. I measured both blocks from where the #1 main cap sits to the cam retainer bolt hole which is centrally located around the camshaft bore.

    Front Bolt Bosses:


    Note the lack of AC compressor bolt holes compared to the 31/400 blocks:




    3400 bolt bosses front:


    3500 block front mount profile:


    3400 block front mount profile, as you can see the 3500 block bolt bosses stick out further from the block by about an inch:




    3500 Rear bolt bosses:


    Rear bolt boss spacing has changed for the two that are closest to the edge of the block. The two inboard bolt holes are still the same bolt spacing:


    3400 bolt bosses rear:



    Crankshafts:
    Grabbed up some spare cranks from my stock for comparison pics.
    2.8L 2.99 stroke crank left, 3500 Crank 3.312 stroke center, and 3400/3100 crank 3.312 stroke right.
    Crank Rod journals are now 2.250 inch (way too big in my opinion) up from the old 2.0inch journals.










    Crank Casting Numbers:






    The 58X or whatever it is now Reluctor wheel




    Rod/Pistons:
    Rods are now 5.9 inch long center to center up from previous 5.7 Inch.
    Rod BE's are now 2.375 inch diameter up from 2.125inch previous rods.








    Heads:
    3100 head to the left, 3500 to the right:




    Chamber has been reshaped. I don't have specs on the Valve sizes yet.


    I dont have the exh manifolds they had to be swapped onto the new engine. However as you can see from the carbon build up different port shape on the manifold however. The genral "D" shape profile is still used though. I dont know how much its changed in terms of sizing yet.




    Took a stock 3400 exh gasket that I had and compared the port locations.
    GM has changed the relationship between the bolt holes/ports.
    This is with the bolt holes lined up on gasket/head. however you can't really see the port.


    Lining up the one port (the rest dont line up like this though) as you can see the gasket does not line up with the head. So 3500 manifolds are a must with the heads.


    Intake ports are slightly different






    3500 lower intake manifold


    I'll try and get more info when I can as per some of the measurements that I havnt had a chance to take.
    Colin
    92 Sunbird GT, 3200 Hybrid 13.99@ 95.22 (2004)
    90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 10.54 @ 129mph.

  • #2
    RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

    great! This is good info
    Corey's 95 GP - Engine/Trans installed
    02 GTP - 90* > Failboat
    www.blackbombshell95.com

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

      wow they have changed alot of small things with the engine
      got zap-straps?
      89 Z24
      13.886 @ 96.16 mph
      street trim - slicks

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

        I thought the 3900 was the one with the cam moved up a bit... also has the bores moved outwards a bit, IIRC.

        Cool pics, nice to see the insides of one.
        60v6's original Jon M.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

          Originally posted by RidgeRunner
          I thought the 3900 was the one with the cam moved up a bit... also has the bores moved outwards a bit, IIRC.

          Cool pics, nice to see the insides of one.
          Yeah I think your right on that one Jon.
          Colin
          92 Sunbird GT, 3200 Hybrid 13.99@ 95.22 (2004)
          90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 10.54 @ 129mph.

          Comment


          • #6
            RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

            nice pics....lots of good info. You got enough parts in there for like 5 cars.
            Robby Whitesell
            2006 Pontiac G6 GT
            1985 Toyota Pickup DLX

            Comment


            • #7
              RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

              as allways , props go out to colin, great work... when is it goin in the car?
              3.4L camaro some goodies

              Comment


              • #8
                RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                Can I move into your garage? Please?!?!?!? I'll bring my own bed..........

                Comment


                • #9
                  RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                  Curious yet again, It looks like the 58X whatever the heck it is reluctor wheels are pressed onto the outside of the crank? Does it appear that it can be knocked off then the 7 notches around the wheel be milled? Also, are the journals still rolled fillets? I can't tell from the pics.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                    Originally posted by Fierobsessed
                    Curious yet again, It looks like the 58X whatever the heck it is reluctor wheels are pressed onto the outside of the crank? Does it appear that it can be knocked off then the 7 notches around the wheel be milled? Also, are the journals still rolled fillets? I can't tell from the pics.
                    Yes It's pressed onto the outside of the crank.. I forgot to mention that. along with the fact that the exterior where it presses onto is still the same diameter of the old 7x reluctor ring. Now isn't that just convenient

                    Yeah the journals are still rolled.
                    Colin
                    92 Sunbird GT, 3200 Hybrid 13.99@ 95.22 (2004)
                    90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 10.54 @ 129mph.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                      Thanks for the pics Colin. Awesome there.

                      I saw a few people suggesting to mill down the rod journals on the crank to fit the smaller rod on there. Honestly do you guys think that is a good idea? I dont' know. I sure don't think it is but that is just me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why do they want to do this?

                        3500 rod would be nice since it's longer, that way it can be run on the 2.8L crank. But NOOOOO they had to go and make the BE's .25" bigger. Stupid whores.
                        97 Cavalier RS
                        3400, Isuzu MK7

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                          Originally posted by Shaun41178
                          Thanks for the pics Colin. Awesome there.

                          I saw a few people suggesting to mill down the rod journals on the crank to fit the smaller rod on there. Honestly do you guys think that is a good idea? I dont' know. I sure don't think it is but that is just me.
                          It really depends on how the crank was constructed. Personal opinion, I would never cut a crank that has rolled fillets, like all 60 degree cranks do. If you machine those out, you loose the hardening in the weakest spot in the crank, and that can't be good when you are looking to push it hard. If the crank doesn't have the rolled fillets, I guess theres no real issue with cutting it down, but still, try for 2.100" since there are so many aftermarket SBC rods out there, and they are cheep.

                          Still, heres a rod designed for a 4.3 that just so happens to be a close fit to the 3500 crank, all it needs is alittle narrowing. Since it uses a .927 pin, you might have to use custom pistons with it, but if you planned on doing that anyway, its not a big deal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: The official 3500 thread. pics.

                            WOW..thanks for taking the time to do this!

                            I like that they unshrauded the valves but keept the fast burn desighn and quench erea. Iron head meets aluminum..LOL.
                            The valves look like they are flat instead of conical. Are the exhaust valve also flat?
                            I perdict 240intake CFM and 170 exhaust.
                            Man..this thing can make nasty power.
                            88 Beretta GTU turbo . 90 Black ASC/McLaren TGP, awaiting 4t80. 2003 Grand AM se 3400/4t45 daily grind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              maybe you can offset grind the new crank by .20" and have a 3.71" stroke and you could use the short rods and the stock pistons. the larger bearings leave room for offset grinding, but the big problem with that is stuff actually fitting in the block. i'd be intersted in seeing how big you could make a 60 degree. stroke it and add 1mm to the bore, you'd have to come close to if not more than 4.0L
                              If you aren't friends with a liar, you aren't friends with anyone.

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