Electric Water pump?

[geoffinbc]

Raven so now your saying an electric motor can't provide the power to turn a supercharger? Thats not true it easily can. You could get a motor small enought and powerful enough to easily turn a supercharger, I mean a real one that will make real boost. But your never going to get any benefit because now you need something to make the electrical energy required. This would have to come in the forum of a generator. Now you've added 2 extra devices to your car, you also need to make that energy change forms more time and thus the whole setup blows because you could have done it with a belt and 2 pullies in the first place.

Its not that only the crank can provide the torque to turn a blower. Torque doesn't matter. Power (watts or horsepower) is your only concern. You can take RPM and make it into torque or vise versa.

You say im not listening but everything I have said is true. I never said any of these devices wont work. My whole basic point is that an electric motor (again for a given output whatever it may be moving) will not be more efficient. The power always in the end comes off the crank. I even agree that en electric water pump would be good on the track (the street I seriously have my doubts) but remember its only freeing power because the output its giving you is a mere fraction of what the belt driven one is doing.

[sprucegagt]

But as stated before you can't compare the hp of a electric motor with that of crank hp. They are not the same value. Thus there is no point to trying to compare the two.

Also who says you must have a variable speed water pump? Whether its for the street or track? Coolant flow is only good up to a certain point afterwards you loose cooling efficiency. Meaning excessive coolant flow is bad, no matter street or track conditions. Instead one constant flow rate, I think would be perferred.

Now I will agree with you with there reliability. If I remember correctly that Moroso motor is rated for only 5500 hours of service life. That I think is to low compared to a mechanical pump, thus no good for the street.

[bszopi]

http://60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=55&page=1&POSTNUKESID=f63e8cbde12d37cd4c958d8b305ea293

Electric superchargers. I'd say you'd need a generator...

[geoffinbc]

http://60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&re q=viewarticle&artid=55&page=1&POSTNUKESID=f63e8cbd e12d37cd4c958d8b305ea293

Electric superchargers. I'd say you'd need a generator...

Oh without a doubt you would. No stock alternator is up to the task thats obvious enough.

If you wanted to get really dangerous you could run a motor on several thousand volts and a very high AC frequency. A motor like this would be small and would be able to spin very fast giving out the power needed.

[pillowmeto]

Ill be using the CSR pump when i install my 2.8, i might also run a reverse collant flow, still under consideration. It will cool the heads better, but at the same time it resists convection.

MAtt

[EspanolaGuitarista]

Once again...

I am not an electrical engineer. I am starting to get into it, subscribed to nuts and volts. I favor mechanical engineering. One thing I do know is that electric motors make lots of torque and very low rpm. This is perfect for accessory drives. I would like to run everything, except the alternator of course off of a steam turbine. Exhaust heat is FREE energy. I was thinking about adding a pulley system with a 3 inch belt where the accessories are running off of it plus it would be routed around the crank. I made the calculations. A turbine equivalent to 1 L would net about 120 ft.lbs of torque at least. There! I solved all you guy's problems without electronics, but I would like to see what would happen if you ran all the accesories off of an electric motor. That would free up significant horsepower and increase gas mileage.

[geoffinbc]

Re: Once again...

I would like to see what would happen if you ran all the accesories off of an electric motor. That would free up significant horsepower and increase gas mileage.

If you ran the alternator off the electric motor that would acomplish nothing and the whole system would stop when the power source, such as a battery, ran out of power.

Using a turbine off the exhaust to spin an alternator or generator would work to power accessories. However the question has to be asked. How much power do the accessories combind need? 30HP? To get this from an electric motor you would need a generator running a very high voltage electric motor. Almost more hastle than its worth.

Better off to run a turbo and offset the power lost to accessories at the crank.

[EspanolaGuitarista]

I had a great idea....

about that. A steam powered turbine would produce enough power to:
1)Double the effiency of the engine.
2)Run all accessories.
3)Run a turbo at full boost at idle.
4)This would in turn allow an engine to run at much lower speeds.
5)You may be able to run a 1 or 2 speed automatic and 1:1 differential.

I have thought about this theory for a long time. My ideas are sound and I'm going to send a letter to GM. If this was coupled with hybrid technology, I could imagine a 1 L engine making 100 mpg + 30-40% for the hybrid setup. We could reduce the need for petroleum by 200%!!!!

[geoffinbc]

Uhhh sure it could. But where is the thermal energy commin from to create steam?

Or you just being scarcatic.

[Juglenaut]

RE: I had a great idea....

How about a hydrogen reactor???

Anyway about the compression thing. Water can be pressurized, but the volume or the density of water takes up the same amount of space. Water cannot be compressed, it is a hydraulic compound, in which also means that water can be condensated out of air.

Air can be pressurized and compressed, by compressible gas dynamics where as atmosphereic gases press together it losses volume, but retaining the mass. Also under the principals of thermodynamics.

Water requires more power to flow as it has more mass then air, however water requires less to pressurize versus air, again water cannot be compressed.

Air will compress a lot more than water will, so it takes a lot more power to compress air than move water

[Froggx]

RE: I had a great idea....

This is a good thread, lots of good information, lots of good theories, lots of good insults.

I considered using an electric water pump on my car. Then I thought about usage. The electric water pump is ok for drag racing, that's 12-13 seconds of full acceleration, then you leave it on to cool. My car can handle this. Then I thought about autocrossing. I've been on courses that take over 100 seconds to complete. I'll be on the throttle, off the throttle, part throttle, point is no time to cool. I didn't feel a electric water pump would be safe for my motor in this situation. I'm not going to mention the feasibility of eletric water pumps and road racing.

[Guest]

Re: RE: I had a great idea....

How about a hydrogen reactor???

Anyway about the compression thing. Water can be pressurized, but the volume or the density of water takes up the same amount of space. Water cannot be compressed, it is a hydraulic compound, in which also means that water can be condensated out of air.

Air can be pressurized and compressed, by compressible gas dynamics where as atmosphereic gases press together it losses volume, but retaining the mass. Also under the principals of thermodynamics.

Water requires more power to flow as it has more mass then air, however water requires less to pressurize versus air, again water cannot be compressed.

Air will compress a lot more than water will, so it takes a lot more power to compress air than move water

Better explaination.

[Guest]

Re: RE: I had a great idea....

This is a good thread, lots of good information, lots of good theories, lots of good insults.

I considered using an electric water pump on my car. Then I thought about usage. The electric water pump is ok for drag racing, that's 12-13 seconds of full acceleration, then you leave it on to cool. My car can handle this. Then I thought about autocrossing. I've been on courses that take over 100 seconds to complete. I'll be on the throttle, off the throttle, part throttle, point is no time to cool. I didn't feel a electric water pump would be safe for my motor in this situation. I'm not going to mention the feasibility of eletric water pumps and road racing.

PLEASE, PLEASE, before you make these assumptions, look into how many people really ARE using electric water pumps/drives, on the street and in road racing. There are many and have little to no problems. Most problems with heating are not caused by the electric pump/drive, but improper sized rad, T-stat, hoses, etc, which even with a belt driven pump will still have the same problems.

Also realize that most heat is created at WOT, how long are you at WOT on an Auto-X course? Not very long, maybe 8 seconds on courses I've seen and that's a VERY large course. At idle or just off (cornering, braking, etc), there is more than sufficiant flow to keep the engine cool.

[Froggx]

RE: Re: RE: I had a great idea....

Just for reference, on the last autocross I ran I averaged about 60 seconds of driving time on the course and my coolant temperatures consistantly rose from ~180 to ~210 degrees each time. The ambient temperature was 95 degrees. I typically spend more time on the throttle than most as I currently have a tendency to use the rear wheels to influence my turning.

[Guest]

Re: RE: Re: RE: I had a great idea....

Just for reference, on the last autocross I ran I averaged about 60 seconds of driving time on the course and my coolant temperatures consistantly rose from ~180 to ~210 degrees each time. The ambient temperature was 95 degrees. I typically spend more time on the throttle than most as I currently have a tendency to use the rear wheels to influence my turning.

Ok, but how long were you on the throttle (hard) in one stretch? By on the throttle hard I mean 75% Throttle Angle or above.