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  • funny cam timing

    Well I installed my cam today. Went pretty much as expected. The original timing chain had a surprising amount of slack in it for a motor with only 52k on it, so it's a good thing I decided to replace it. I also replaced the O-ring on the oil pump drive, the front crank oil seal, and of course the other necessary gaskets. Still have the heads off though. I'll be switching the valve springs and retainers tommorrow and putting them on, then it's time to reset the valve lash on all the rockers (fun).

    Here's the funny part. According to my manual, with the crank timing mark lined up with the tab on the timing chain damper, the cam sprocket should be installed with it's timing mark straight down lined up with the other tab on the damper. This puts pistons 1 and 4 at TDC, and the cam lobs with #1 about to start the intake stroke, and #4 at the end of it's compression stroke and about to fire. When I took the cam sprocket off though (the way it came from the factory) the mark was straight up at the top. This reversed what the cylinders were doing. Obviously the engine still ran, as 1 and 4 are on the same coil pack and fire at the same time, or twice per combustion cycle (this is called a waste spark system I think?)... but I wonder if it might not have had some adverse affect of the engines hp since a different cylinder was firing all the time than the one the pcm thought was firing? Probably not but, you never now. Any thoughts on this?


    Some other random observations. This new cam weighs a ton compared to the stock one since it's not hollow. I don't know why they didn't bore it out. I don't think I need to worry about the fact I got a light weight crank pulley though because this thing makes up for it, sheesh. Also, the '03 cam sensor has the plug built into the top of it instead of having a wire lead to the plug like the '00-'02 sensor. I'm gonna try unwrapping the injector harness and re-routing the cam sensor wires so they'll reach. Also I guess a couple of the pin positions changed so I need to switch a couple wires in the plug. Then we'll see if my pcm likes the signal or if I'll have to re-program.
    '97 Grand Prix GT 3800 (sold)
    '00 Grand Am GT 3400 supercharged
    13.788 @ 103.73 mph, 320whp 300 ft/lbs
    Gotta love boost!

  • #2
    Thats pretty odd that the cam was in backwards, but like you said, with the way both coil plugs are fired at the same time, I guess being 180 off wouldn't affect it at all. Still pretty goofy.

    Hope that you can get the cam signal sorted out, that seems like it might be a real bish. Can't wait to see a boosted, cammed, tuned GA make a pass at the 1/4 mile, if it didn't see mid-low 13s, I'd be dissapointed.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm just wondering where you got your cam, and how much?
      2002 Pontiac GrandAm GT1
      3400 v6
      TOG headers
      RSM 62MM T-body
      FFP underdrive pulley
      GRANATELLI MAF
      Ported upper intake
      MSD DIS 4 ignition box
      MSD Wires and coils (pending)
      Venom high flow fuel pump (pending)

      Comment


      • #4
        i dont think the pcm actually cares, if both pistons are tdc and the same coil fires both. i cant see it having a problem, if you have the cam sensor for sfi, then id think maybe a little thing might pop up, but still i dont think it matters, i think its just for injector timing (or maybe it is a big thing).
        wosrt case, injectors fire out of time, which would be a problem for the sfi motors. probably best to correct it if you have the oppurtunity.

        i thought about this for a while when i put my motor tegether. i put the timing set in like i did on other motors, both marks close, then i was browsing my book and it said to put both up. i was like, oops, then i figured if i had a distributor, all i had to do was time that accordingly, but since its dis driven off the crank, and both fire simulaneously, whats the problem? and mine is just gen2 so i dont have to worry about sfi.
        If you aren't friends with a liar, you aren't friends with anyone.

        Comment


        • #5
          The cam spins at half the speed of the crank. So if you turn your crank over once, the dot will be up. If you turn it over one more time, the dot will be back down again. So it wasn't wrong at all...
          -Brad-
          89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
          sigpic
          Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bszopi
            The cam spins at half the speed of the crank. So if you turn your crank over once, the dot will be up. If you turn it over one more time, the dot will be back down again. So it wasn't wrong at all...
            Werd!

            I was just about to say the same thing.

            Comment


            • #7
              oh yeah...
              If you aren't friends with a liar, you aren't friends with anyone.

              Comment


              • #8
                www.howstuffworks.com :P
                1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
                1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
                Because... I am, CANADIAN

                Comment


                • #9
                  Damn newbies... ROFL!

                  Aaron, you've been hanging out at GAGT too long... It drains your brain of knowledge if you hang out there too much.
                  -Brad-
                  89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
                  sigpic
                  Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bszopi
                    Damn newbies... ROFL!

                    Aaron, you've been hanging out at GAGT too long... It drains your brain of knowledge if you hang out there too much.
                    Werd

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ProjectMM
                      I'm just wondering where you got your cam, and how much?
                      $350 from milzy motorsports. Billet core and custom grind produced by cam motion. There's another thread in here about it.



                      Brad, I hang out here too and that hasn't stopped me from getting wrong info occasionally. :P j/k Hey, thats the point of a forum right? Get enough people together and you'll get the right answer eventually. I honestly wasn't even thinking about the difference in rotation between the crank and cam. Last cam I installed was on the 2.8v6 in my old pontiac 6000. Haven't needed to touch any internals since then. Talk about a dinosaur... that motor may be the precursor to the current 60v6, but there are so many differences now it's almost like a whole nother engine.
                      '97 Grand Prix GT 3800 (sold)
                      '00 Grand Am GT 3400 supercharged
                      13.788 @ 103.73 mph, 320whp 300 ft/lbs
                      Gotta love boost!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How's the car runnning? any rought idle problems or rought engiin problems? it seemed like a lot of lift that's why I'm asking! also are you using the stock computer, like they say you can or have you goten a reprogram? I'm trying to get all the info before geting one my self!

                        one more thing, how fast did your order get take care of? thanks for all your help!
                        2002 Pontiac GrandAm GT1
                        3400 v6
                        TOG headers
                        RSM 62MM T-body
                        FFP underdrive pulley
                        GRANATELLI MAF
                        Ported upper intake
                        MSD DIS 4 ignition box
                        MSD Wires and coils (pending)
                        Venom high flow fuel pump (pending)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Um... my engine isn't even in the car yet. Can't tell you how it's running. I'm putting the engine in this weekend, but I'm still waiting on a custom radiator and some other stuff before she'll be ready to fire. It took about 4-5 months to get the cam from when I ordered it, but I was also in the first group to order them and they were still being developed so it took a while. They should be able to get them faster now. I don't know yet if the new cam will work with the stock computer or not. I'm going to be re-programming it anyway though, because I'm using larger injectors, plus it just needs it with boost and a cam. I'm still waiting for my programmer too though.
                          '97 Grand Prix GT 3800 (sold)
                          '00 Grand Am GT 3400 supercharged
                          13.788 @ 103.73 mph, 320whp 300 ft/lbs
                          Gotta love boost!

                          Comment

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