3100SFI plans...

[toddshotrods]

Hey everyone. I just pulled a 3100/4T60E out of a 93 Cutlass for one of my projects. I have the complete engine and transaxle, the underhood wiring harness, and the computer. I didn't pull the harness from inside the car, but I did get the gauges, plug, and about a foot of its harness to wire them up.

Question One
Do I have everything I need for this puppy to run properly?

Question Two
Is there a diagnostic port somewhere in the Cutlass? Should I grab it too, or is it the same as the one on the Fiero chassis it's going in? If you're wondeirng why I don't just look for it, the car was once inhabited by stray cats and it makes me itch just thinking about going in there.

I want the swap to be as clean as possible, so here's what I have done so far/plan to do: I fabbed an idler pulley from the a/c compressor pulley to replace the power steering pump. I am in the process of fabricating mounts to move the alternator down to where the a/c compressor was on the left side. I removed the coil pack (will be mounted on the car) and am reworking the harness to clean things up.

After I get it set up right and swapped in, I plan to extract more performance from it. I will try to share some pics soon, and have more questions...

[Doubt_Incarnate]

im not real familiar with either car. you can plug the pcm into the harness right? and into all the motor sensors and the tranny? if you did then it should run. but you might want to do some research, i remember reading somewhere (i think it was the dohc fiero swap link, but it doesnt work) about a 4t60-e swap into a fiero and they needed different mounts and axels. not exactly sure what they used but i think one axel was from a montana minivan, and i dont recall the other, i believe they used the 4t60-e top bracket, so it cant hurt to get that. i know the block castings are different so you'll probably need to make a custom bracket to mount the motor. something you might to check, i dont know if the tranny is shifted with cables levers etc, or if its all electronicly, you might want the shifter itslef from the olds, but watchout for fleas if you do, and the steaming piles of poo and puddles of ammonia that were once upon a time, piss.

[toddshotrods]

Thanks Doubt, actually I never unplugged the pcm, ecm, or whatever this one is dubbed. It's all still hooked up, except for a couple things, which I will probably ask questions about later. Even as I rework the harness I am doing a couple wires at a time and reconnecting them, until I get used to this setup.

I know about the axles. I have to build two custom axles from parts of Fiero, minivan, and Cutlass axles. Not a problem there. I also forgot to mention that the motor and transaxle mounts will be all custom. The car is actually going to be a street-legal race car so it will be solid mounted. The transaxle is cable shifted and I am doing a custom deal there as well.

edited for typo

[Doubt_Incarnate]

cool, i'm jealous. i had a 4 cyl fiero once, let my older brother have it as long as i had first choice to get it back. needles to say, my family makes homeless people look cool. even though this particular car( '84) was a delapidation, it was still fun to drive. If i would have gottten it back it would be a 5spd 3.1 right now.

btw, PCM is a Powertrain Control Module, it accounts for the engine and tranny. the ECM is engine biased. i wonder what it is for an STS seville, Chassis Control Module?

[bszopi]

BCM... Body Control Module

[Froggx]

About the diagnostic port, you can just reuse the fiero one.

[bszopi]

Hmm... I might have the wiring diagrams on the site. The 93 3100 uses a computer similar to a 7727/30. If you have the plugs to the ECM and the engine harness, you should be able to reuse some of the wiring inside the car. Fiero wiring harness diagrams are pretty easy to come by, so if you compare the 2 diagrams, you'll know what you need to do. If you have any questions after that, ask.

[toddshotrods]

Excellent! Thanks a million guys! Looks like I am all set.

I'll be messing around for a while getting everything set up how I want it, then cleaning and detailing it. In the meantime, I am working in Desktop Dyno on what I would like to do down the road. I have a couple more questions:

Three
Why can't the lobe separation angle be altered on 660 motors?
-----Three-A How many degrees is the actual separation angle?

Four
What's the best flow numbers (cfm) anyone has obtained from Gen III or IV heads?

Five
What do you think is possible from them if money was not the object (excluding starting from scratch and building a complete new sets of heads).

I want to build a high-rpm screamer, with a side of N20 for when the high-rpm shriek alone doesn't get the job done. I was originally going to go with an all-aluminum V8, but am considering building a 660 because of the weight advantage. The car is being built to be a great all-around performer and you can't beat light weight for handling IMO. If I do this I want the Bowtie aluminum block, and figure the final weight will be about 1500lbs wet.

[bszopi]

Three

The lobe seperation can't really be changed ON THE GEN III cams because its hard to significantly alter the LSA via a regrind. In the next couple of weeks (I HOPE!), there will be either cams or cam blanks available, which will allow you to get any grind you want, including whatever LSA you want. So LSA shouldn't be an issue in the near future.

[Froggx]

Three (followup)

While LSA can't be changed too much by a regrind, it can be altered slightly (at least crower was able to do so with mine)

Three A

112*

Four ?

What is gen IV being defined as, the new 3500? (not that I know the answer anyway, jw)

Also just wondering, from your initial posts it sounds like you're planning on using a fiero and you plan on getting the weight down to 1500 wet it seems if you go 3100. Over at fiero.nl they stripped a fiero down to the frame, a seat, the windshield, and a TDC w/ a 5spd and it weight 2200 lbs. If you have any tricks to get it that much below that care to share them?
Here's the link: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056199.html

[toddshotrods]

Four ?
I don't know, I thought I read about Gen IV heads somewhere. Maybe it was the 3500, or maybe it was a bad dream

The link didn't work (404 not found page came up), and I wanted to see that one. I am always on PFF, but I must have missed that one.

Anyway, I am building a roadster and most of the factory space frame will be removed. I cut one Fiero into a bunch of pieces, and found out what has to be done to bring the weight down. Rigidity will be restored with huge, step-over, fabricated, rocker/perimeter frame rails. The body is going to be all one-off composite (mostly carbon fiber), and there really won't be much to it. More weight loss there. Carbon fiber and Kevlar interior, with a touch of leather and padding on the seats. Also the stock suspension components are pretty heavy and most will be replaced with aluminum and moly. In addition to the first Fiero that was cut into pieces, I have two others (including the one that will be the base for this project) that are being slowly whittled down. I usually cut the parts car first to make sure I like the results and then cut the real thing.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

butcher!

[Froggx]

That's odd, now I can't find it, maybe I'll have more luck later

Very interesting on the weight reduction, wish I had the nerve to do it with my car.

[toddshotrods]

This is the car the motor is going in. Next the roof and sides of the passenger compartment come off, and I start building the perimeter rails. The one with the green doors behind it is the parts car.

[Froggx]

that fiero seems to be missing something...