V6 Help!

[tha_SwEdE]

RE: V6 Help!

I know engine theory.. But I don't got the info of the diffrence between a 2.8L piston and a 3.1L piston....

And experianc I got to.. But to make things clearer what I'm thinking:

I'm thinking of getting a 3.1/3.4L crank and get 90-92mm pistons...
And concrete fill the block to stabilize it... and get forged comp loverd pistons... So I can get the right comp for the turbos...
The rod will be in org. length...


And the cylinder heads WERE can I get them

[geoffinbc]

Concrete fill the block? WTF?

You can get heads at a core supply depot or perhaps buy it from someone on this site or e-bay

[tha_SwEdE]

RE: V6 Help!

You never heard of it??
...many use it here were I'm from...
...I'ts not usally for street use... but has been coming more and more on streetcars... stabilizes the cylinders when the block get more volume tah org. also with turbo use...

[geoffinbc]

How do you cool the engine then? That would add like another hundred pounds to the block.

This has to be bullshit.

[bszopi]

No, I've seen them do it to race engines. But never anything you put on the street. And its normally not concrete, but some other (lighter) filler material.

[Guest]

Yes, blck fill has been used for MANY, MANY years, originally concrete was used, but since there have been other products developed, I believe one is called "Blok Fil" or something like that.

As far as differece between a 2.8 and a 3.1 piston.....

think about this for a bit....

Both use 5.7" long rods....
Both come to zero deck (or close to)
but there are two different strokes, what, oh what could be different?


Hmmmm.....















Eureka!!!




Pin hight is different, by amazingly .32", meaning that a 3.1 slug on a 2.8 crank with a 5.7" long rod in a 2.8 or a 3.1 block, the pistin will be down in the bore by .32" (or so) that's well over 1/4" down teh hole, meaning the quench is GONE, meaning there will be a SCR of oh say next to nothing, which will probably keep the engine from running.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

yeah, make fun of me, i said with THE LONGER RODS. im not so retarded, just some.
i like to look at other more interesting options. besides, not like im the one tossing cooling out the window in favor of 50lbs of sac-rete.

[geoffinbc]

Well I knew there was block fill but I never knew they used concrete. Also there is NO way you could run this on the street. The track yes I can see that. Even if you half fill the block you will still have sever hot spots where there is no water around the cylinders.

But if you need that shit then you should be running a drag block with no water jackets. That filler just screams hack job.

[RacerX11]

You can fill up just the lowest inch or so of the block, and still retain some cooling jacket and water flow. Still somewhat streetable, and nowhere near 50lbs of extra weight..I am guessing maybe 5-10lbs tops?

The products used now are more like an epoxy than a concrete, with heat expansion properties closer to that of the cast iron block.

Marty

[Guest]

Block fill is hardly a hack job. Many racers have been using it for many years, besides, when's the last time you saw a block produced with no water jacket? That's right never, even the Keith Black Hemi engines have a form of water jacket. Also please point me to a 660 block with no water jacket. Yeah that's what I thought.

Also I know quite a few people who have half filled blocks and run them regularly on the street, we're talking 800+ HP engines too, so there is quite a bit of heat build up. Not once have I heard of them cmplain about over heating.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

but as far as combustion and the power stroke, isnt the lowest inch or so pretty much irrelevant t since the piston still has that point covered?

[Zerorsica]

Why not just start with a 3.4 or 3.1 block? About filling the engine block with concrete? I've heard about tapping the freeze plugs and inserting some larger metal plugs that will make the block stronger. You could cross tap the mains and make a "4 bolt main" engine (well it can be done on a 5.0L). Also fab up a main support and a larger oil pan... WTF filling an engine with concrete? I must add this ->

If I wanted to build up my 660 I'd get a larger 3.4 Block or buy a stroker kit for my 3.1... Port the stock heads, put larger valves (if possible), get a more aggresive cam and a single intercooled turbo setup. Oh and larger TB, maybe a custom boxed intake or whatever... Yeah and fab up a AWD system using Pontiac 6000 AWD parts and put in a 400HP build up V6. uhoh, I hope no one goes in my garage to see the mess I'm brewing muahahahaha

[oil pan 4]

If you have never herd of block fill then you must not know to much about building big high power engines.
Every one is waving the BS flag and calling WTF when it comes to block fill.
You don't want to use concrete any more. The last time I looked at a block filler the one I was looking at was water activated, full of reinforcing fiber and expanded at the same rate as cast iron.
I think a lot of block fills are based on concrete with gipsum and lime stone but with a lot of additives to make it stronger like the fibers and junk.
The most weight you would end up adding is about 30lb to a big block at most, normaly less then 12lb. SBC I have herd even less then that.
It is used the most in engines that are methanol (or other than gas) powered where cooling isn't a problem, getting the thing warmed up is.
BTW methanol burns realy cool, but these engines need to be hot to run there best.
Also theres the hole thing about useing 18:1 c/r with methanol and making tons of power. Some people might be raceing in classes that you have to use a stock block, or they might not have $2400+ for an after market block but need some thing stronger. Block fill is about the only way to make it stronger.
I don't think I would ever do it to a v6.
If I rip apart a cast iron block for no reason other then to much power then I will think about it.
To me the hole thing about the V6 is it's light ness.
And for porting cylinder heads it is not cheap, that's why I took my die grinder and bought some Iron bits and did my heads for nothing.

[oil pan 4]

Block fillers at summit.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=block+filler&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=9&y=7

[geoffinbc]

Thats what I'm saying how can you run it on the street? Especially on gasoline where heat is the biggest killer. He said his car was going to be on the street.

If you are a real race team then you have a block designed for your catagory that either runs with a full or limited water jacket or none what so ever. Pretty much ALL gasoline racers need cooling. Alcohol does not. So if required you then would buy a block with extra thick walls, siamesed cylinders and a reinforced skirt and bitchen' main bearings. I still dont think block filler is the proper way to fly. Even a budget team would make a large investment in a proper block because they know that is where it all starts. But I guess it all depends on where your standards are. I mean some people run BOSCH spark plugs LOL

If you were looking to really drag race a 660 block seriously, then you would have the bowtie block and in that case you would never need to fill the block for strength in most cases. If you did then you could install extra thick cylinder liners like the LSx guys do (see: C5R block with siamesed cylinders)