Individual Runner ?'s

[Anonymous]

Well a blower would sure give him the type of power he wants, but at a cost. Tuning it will not be fun, and it sounds as if he doesn't want to tune. This ITB can be run off of his stock ECU, fuel, and ignition setup. Not a good idea, but it would work. For a blower, you need to change the entire engine setup. For best results, drop compression, new ECU or piggy backing your current one, fuel delivery improvements across the board, etc.

I'd use a larger TB for the blower, that 3.1 TB would just make the blower starve.

Plus, running the TBs cross style, or any way other than pointing up, it will not be too dificult to keep it under the hood. As for IAC, that is easy. Out of each TB/carb you run a line, all to a common box, your vacuum box. To this runs all of your vacuum accessories, and your IAC basically just bypasses, and lets outside filtered air into the box. Plus you still have screws to adjust the idle manually on 99% of TBs and carbs. It seems a lot more complex and difficult than it actually is.

[speedvisioncavalier]

well, i dont know the guys bottom end, but since his sig shows a Jbody, i assume he could have a hybrid. that could leave him with the 8.9:1 compression still, which would work well on boost. and yes, i would install a larger TB on a blower. perhaps bore out a TB off a 3.4 DOHC?

the fabrication of the intake manifold would be the biggest hassle, but if he can fab well, then he has it made. tuning would of course be tough, but why couldnt he run the turbo 3.1 TGP program? he should be able to chip his ECM with the same fuel maps. i know the 3x00 heads flow better, but that should get him pretty close.

assuming he can fab himself cheaply, then the costs of all this could turn out to be the same.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

here's the rest of the motor:
3.1L bored 1mm, 3.1 rwd pistons 11.38:1CR, crane pro/race roller rockers, crane h260-2 cam. currently the motor has the gen 2 topside, i'm going to run with that untill i get the setup i want figured out, then i'll swap it over. i guess i need headers for the 3x00 heads since there arent any j manifolds for them. gear ratios are 1st:3.31, 2nd:1.95, 3rd:1.24, 4th:.81. it is the original 4spd the car came with.
daily driving is important to this car, but more so the fun part of driving, i dont want to have to wait to spin up to higher rpms for the car to feel fast. i had an escort that was fun to drive, all the torque came in at like 2000, and the power, though only 88hp, came at 4800. good under 5K thats what made it fun to run around in. you get to 3K before 5K
for my cavaleir, id like it to have a similar feel, i know the much bigger v6 will have a nice lowend as it is, id like to keep my lowend, and have some mid-high end. i know boosting is the best way to do this, but with the build ive got its not a feasable option anymore.
now that hourglass stuff, it seems to me that its not unlike the venturi effect in the carb, which has been said is a bad thing
i dont mind doing the tunning, its better for performance, and longivity of the motor, because everything would be like it should, just on a budget rightnow. carpayment 375$, ins106$, creditcard 86$ otherbills 160$
see what i mean?
ive been through the wood working crap in school, so i figure i can make a pattern plate from wood, to see what i need, then when i have it right, take my sweet time on a the aluminum, i'm midway learning to weld, so we'll have to see what happens. lots of things to work out, work in. etc

[Anonymous]

I wasn't talking cost directly with money, cost also includes time and hassle. The ITB may be a lot easier to get to work. I don't know how the 3.1T maps would react to a blown 3.1. A stock 3.4L DOHC TB would eb about perfect, but you cna only use a 96-97, and those are getting hard to find. They are either 62 or 64mm stock, I can't remember.

[Anonymous]

Oh God 11.4??? Tuning...That is an understatement. You are going to have to back off timing so much that you might not even see a big power gain from the bump in c/r. And also, high compression motors are more likely to detenate in the lower rpms. With titanium rods, one of the problems we have is stepping on it on the low end. If we go more than 60% throttle below 3k, it will start detonating, which will snap titanium rods right in half, and over the long haul, will do damage to stock rods and forged ones as well. So I hope you have one kick ass MSD setup, you'll need it.

I think the blower is out of the question right about now...

[Doubt_Incarnate]

lol, yeah i think the blower not in the picture.

if i have problems with it before i get to the ir setup i will probably get the late model pistons, what was it lik 9.6: stock, i think bored 1mm and iron head gaskets gets it close to 10, so i geuss i'll have to settle for less there. so i need a timing retard until 3K or so? that doesnt seem like a big deal, not yet anyways, i think that would have a big effect on the fun factor, like no lowend.

off the topic, but since everyones here, how would a longer rod effect the powerband? i read in the power book that you can use sbc rods if you mil the width down and bush the pin. i know they sell 6" rods, though out of my budget right now, i'd like to see about maybe doing a 2.8 project later. using the 6" rods and the rwd 3.1 pistons, 3x00 topside stuff.

[Anonymous]

Long rods generally won't yield power, but from what I hear they are more ideal for high rpm operations, but I couldn't tell you why.

With boost or high compression, you need to back off timing. Let's focus on compression. Race bikes and such get away with 13-14, becuz they run at extremely high rpms with great ignition setups. But a street car, above 10.5-11, the amount of timing you will have to retard will take away power. So basically you could run 12:1, but in order to completely alleviate detanation, you will need to ratard your timing so much that the added compression ends up not adding any power at all, it just puts your engine through more stress for no reason. I'd stick below 10 if I were you, especially ont he stock ECU/ignition. We will be running 10.2 on our future DOHC, but this is all high end operations, and the centrally-located spark plugs do wonders for detantion prevention and overall efficiency of the spark.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

depressing, i hope to be moving to arizona next year. that means i need to do some detuning, even tho my heads are on, torqued, everything but the oil pan and a few plugs need to be put in. sweet, i gues i 'll have to be disgruntled some more. take the thing apart and find some other pistons.
or just try to chill the engine to run as cool as possible and hope it lives untill i move, then i'll have the time/money to build a new one, and my setup should be complete. then maybe swap in a 3500 and put my IR on that...freaking insane motor for my smurf!

[bszopi]

There are several people here running 11+CR on pump gas with no issues. Its all about the tuning. I definately wouldn't recommend it for boost though.

Chris, yeah I like the design. I just wish I had more time (and now a place) to work on it. Hopefully in the next 5-6 months I'll have a house again, with a garage or shop, and I can start back up on it.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

but am i going to lose the majority of the gain i would have got? it seems weird to me the the old vettes and hemis and muscle of the past had the high cr, and made big power. even my ls1 has 10.1, and the gto has like 10.5. if i move to 109-in-july-land then its probably not going to wrk in the end, but i'll go for it as it is, whats the msd box that works with our dis?

[v6h.o.]

[Guest]

11.38 cr is not taht high people. its totally possible for him to run 93 octane pump with that CR.

Someof you people need to get in touch with technology.

Whats the new corvette at CR wise? See what I mean? Pump gas.

You can do it. You need a good tune, and that doesnt' mean retarding the timing back to the Dark ages either.

And if it still pings, add 2 gallons of Xylene to your tank and booya no more ping. Come on people its not hard.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

doesnt the aluminum heads have central located plugs? fast burn style?
all quenchy and shit?
those are some cool pic v6h.o., old iron heads, ive got a set of those...when was tho motor built like '85?
since ive already got the gen 2 stuff on and i read up on some stuff. i'll do what i can, like: CAI, i always wanted to make a setup that has twin chrome dual outlet exhaust tips peeking out from under the front bumper (call me ricey), i think i'll replace the t-stat with a restrictor plate, so its not pumping water to fast to cool, but should never get hot. what is base timing? i know you cant really adjust it, but just for reference. i'll probably move the air temp sensor somewhere warm so it retards the timing on its own, as far as it can. would porting the exhaust manifolds help to keep heat down? those are easy enough to get off while the motor is out.

[Doubt_Incarnate]

well im off work thursdays and mondays, so tommorrow i'll find a chunk of wood and a bit and try to hack something of a model for the plates with my crappy drill press, its bent, just a little. but enough you can se there is something up. should i open coolant passages on both ends of the heads, like have a t-stat housing and send water to both ends oftdhe heads from there? or will it have a negative effect? remeber my compresion ratio is high, so keeping cool is now a big issue. i save a couple of my old valves, im going to see if i can make them into "race-flo" valves, just experimenting, i'll take some pics.

[Anonymous]

Not sure on the pushrod cooling passages, the the DOHC cam ones work like this. The collant flows up the enigne, but once to the lower intake, it is blocked off. The only part of the lower intake that coolant flows through is the driver's side part, coming form a single passage from each bank of cylinders. The two passages join in the LIM, then exit as one. When I built my flanges, I used a section of the factory lower intake, with the only coolant ports, that houses the T-stat, and cut it off of the rest of the LIM. This made it pretty easy. Then I just built flanges to use in place for the rest of the LIM that I cut off.

Since the secret is out, we all know that I am Aaron. Big deal, we shall see...Anyways, I think it will benefit you greatly to show some more pics of mine, so here you go:




I hope this helps. Keep in mind they are sitting on a block of wood, I havn't yet built the runners that curve into the head. For this I will be using 2" mandrel bent steel.