finaly getting a motor to build

[sharkey]

well, ive been talking about building my gen 1 motor for a while, but after spending a considerable amount of time looking, ive come up empty handed for a complete ironhead fwd fuel injected engine. ive found a few, but the junkyards either want to much for them, or they are such high mialage (like 445xxx km) that they wouldnt make a good base. i have however, found my short block.

my buddy has a gen 2 2.8l that spun a bearing. he is giving me the entire short block for free. the crank need to be turned at least .010", and i need 1 new con rod. if i want, i can get a 3.1l crank, but then i run into problems getting good ironhead 3.1l pistons (speedpro makes the only aftermarket pistons for a 3.1l ironhead, and they are hiperutectic versions of stock, at 8.5:1), so i think ill stick with a 2.8l, unless i can shave about .060" off the block without having piston to head clearance issues (i doubt i will be able to).

im not getting the top end with this motor (its a gen 2, i have no use for gen 2 heads) so im going to pull some ironheads at the junkyard, most likely from a camaro or s10. im going to be using a fiero intake on it, and everything is getting massivly ported.

this motor is going into my 86 z24 cavalier 5 speed. im looking to get this into the 200hp mark, and am hoping to run mid- low 14s, and well into the 13s with the juice.

post any thoughts or comments on this, im looking for other peoples input on brands, parts, ect. this is my first 660 motor ive built, although ive built everything from small block chevies to blown alcohol chevy and chrysler big block, and blown alcohol dragsters.

(keep in mind, im going gen 1 heads, ive made my mind up on that. please DO NOT suggest gen 3 heads. ive made my case on this before, and im just not going with them)

[sharkey]

well, turns out that the crank is junk and it needs 3 rods, so im tossing everything but the block. im going to find a 2.8l rwd motor (shouldnt be hard, there are a million camaros and s10s in the junkyards around me with them) and use my fwd block. it was gonna cost me $100 for the top end, or $200 for an entire motor.

im gonna scope the junkyards next weekend. i also have a buddy who works for an f body place that rebuilds them, and they get in all kinds of stuff, so he may have a 2.8 sitting in the corner somewere.

[TurboZ24]

You need too locate a core engine yard. Locally, that where I get all my core engines. I usually spend 75-150 (depending on what the motor is) for a core short block, guarenteed rebuildable. The place is huge (like on 21 acres) and almost all the engines are inside buildings. They also have crates full of cranks, cams, etc, etc.

[Wolf]

I thought all ironhead 3.1s had the 8.9 to 1 cr?

[geoffinbc]

Use a 1993-1995 Camaro intake. It moves more air than a Fiero one. Or do you need a dizzy? If so then you can use a 1990 to 1992 Camaro intake I think it also flows better than a fiero intake.

[Corpse]

"speedpro makes the only aftermarket pistons for a 3.1l ironhead, and they are hiperutectic versions of stock, at 8.5:1" - Federal Mogul H562CP - I think they are like 11.1:1 with iron heads.

I actually have a nice new set of 'em that I would be willing to sell very cheaply. Let me know if you are interested.

Just to let you know, if you are using a Gen II block, certain castings of the block are known to allow the deck to be ripped from the block, under serious usage. In later years of Gen II, like the 3.1 MPFI, they used X shaped ribs on the sides of the block to improve the strength of the block. Also, two bars were added into the lifter valley to brace there aswell. The bad block casting is 10065459.

-Dave

[sharkey]

i have a core yard about an hour away from me, but the problem is they want a lot for an ironhead 660. i can actualy get a complete running engine from the junkyard for $225, from the tb oil pan, flywheel to crank pully. all it doesnt have is the alternator and power steering pump.

all i can find for 3.1l pistons is the speedpro ones, and they claim 8.5:1. i figure taking about .060 off the deck will land me at 9.4:1, but i may end up running into clearance problems with that. 11:1 would be nice, but may be a bit much for a daily driver. i dont want to have to put 94 in it all the time. (i know i could bump the timing down and keep a light foot, but what fun is that???)

i do need the distributor, and am not going to dis (refer back to the "im not running gen 3 heads, dont even suggest it" comment). i havent ever seen a 90-92 camaro manifold. all the maifold i have seen go straight out the front, so the tb would be in the alternator, or flipper around it would be into the distributor. im going to see what i can find, if i get a motor from a camaro ill see what i can do with that intake, but im gonna wait on intake stuff, thatll come later when i start building the top end.

the block i have is from my buddies 87 cavalier, so its about as early as you can get with a gen 2 block. it looks to be in alright shape. ill check the casting number tonight.

[sharkey]

ok as luck turns out, the block i have is that casting number.

how bad is this problem??? i havent ever heard of it before. is it just in rare cases, or does it happen quite often???

[Wolf]

i havent ever seen a 90-92 camaro manifold. all the maifold i have seen go straight out the front, so the tb would be in the alternator, or flipper around it would be into the distributor. im going to see what i can find, if i get a motor from a camaro ill see what i can do with that intake, but im gonna wait on intake stuff, thatll come later when i start building the top end.

its the same as a 85-89 2.8 f-body uim(other than the top is blank insted of sayin 2.8 mpi)

imo, the intake you have would be better perfomance wise than a fiero one....and you'd prolly also have hood clearence issuse with the fiero intake

also,did your z24 come with the the 5 speed stock? I thought they had 4 speeds untill the 2nd gen

[sharkey]

86 z24 came with a 4 speed, but i swapped it out for a 5 speed from a 90 z24. 87 was the first year they came with a 5 speed.

[sharkey]

im not sure how you get 11:1 compression out of the 562cp pistons with ironheads. all the specs are the same as stock. you would get 11:1 with those pistons with aluminum heads though.

[sharkey]

ttt any comments on the block casting problems posted above (10065459 casting)??? id like to know if i should use this block i have??? ive never heard of this problem, and i want to make sure its ok to use.

[TurboZ24]

Not sure what casting I have, but never had problems with my block. It's a stock 90' TGP block.

[Corpse]

Just having that casting does not mean you will have problems. it is just not exactly an ideal casting for a performance buildup. it is mainly an issue of assurance, do you want a block that is more or less likely to have a problem.

Other version of the 660 platform block have features to improve strength and have less harmful vibrations and such. More than likely though, whichever 60 degree GM block you choose, it's still not a bad product (Aside from the early small-journal main motors, I'd rather have the newer design..)

Also, I meant to mention this sooner but, sorry about the 11:1 compression posting. I am used to viewing the normal compression for the H562CP's as that number but, any time I would look to use those pistons in a normal environement would be an aluminum headed engine. Realistically also, being a dished piston, they are more suited for the aluminum headed environment. Whereas, a flattop piston that can be easily fly-cut or plunged for valve reliefs. Of course, it is most likely dished for the first Gen in order to lower compression from what a flattopped piston would put out. Assuming, it was dished as oppoesed to less compression height due to lack of ring(#1) to piston-face clearance.

Federal Mogul makes many pistons though. There may be a few choices that are hard to find that are out there that will fit. There are also a ton of other piston manufacturers out there, I guess you must just look really hard.

-Dave

[614streets]

Psssssst. Dont forget Ebay.