You have to pull the pan to remove the cam...right???

[dbtk2]

Pulling the oil pan is the only way to get the oil pump drive out so you can pull the cam out of the engine, correct? I am just making sure before I start to pull the pan off the engine, that there isn't an easier way to access it, like from the top somehow.

Thanks,

Shawn

[v6h.o.]

NO.

you do not remove the oil pan to install a camshaft.

just remove the Oil Pump Drive (the distributor plug) and its as simple as that.

[dbtk2]

So all I do is pull that up then???

That will sure save me a lot of work...

Thanks a LOT!

Shawn

[robby1870]

Yeah, just pull it straight up. Might have to wiggle it around a little so the teeth disengage

[Corpse]

Yes, they can be quite a pain sometimes to pull up but, they come right out. Pry it with a flathead screwdriver or soemthing. it will gouge the aluminum but, it works every time. might want to try turning the cam if it is extremely hard.

make sure to get a new O-ring as preventative maintainence. Once they are hard and are removed they begin to leak. Also, when you remove the timing cover you will break the seal between it and the oil pan gasket, which technically calls for a change of the oil pan gasket anyhow.

Seeing as you have a turbo motor, if you have 100K miles or over, think about chnaging out the oil pump. it is a good idea. Also, if you do, GM sells the spring for like $2.50 to make the oil pump hold pressures to 70 PSI if possible.

-Dave

[dbtk2]

Well I already have the engine almost put back together now, so I don't think I'm going to do all the work to take the oil pan off just to change the gasket or to change an oil pump that works fine, especially on my 77k engine. Also, my car runs 75psi oil pressure when the engine is cold at idle. Fully warmed up it runs 60psi down the freeway, and fully warmed up at WOT it runs 70psi, so I don't know what exactly this spring is supposed to do. My other TGP runs even higher oil pressures than this, I don't think oil pressure is a problem with the turbo engines.

I appreciate the suggestions and concern, but thats a lot of work to replace something that works perfect how it is.

Thanks for the help with getting the drive out,

Shawn

[Corpse]

First off, it is NOT at all a lot of work, it would take about 12 minutes to do. The oil pan bolts are cake and the pump has one bolt. But, I wouldn't worry about it.

Anyhow, perhaps the turbo engines came with the higher pressure spring, I dunno. By what you are saying they must have, or, your guages or sending units are not functioning correctly. I know GM's oil pressure guages and sending units were not very well made in the late 80's.

The pre-1990 oil pressure sending units are actually outdated and were replaced with a vented type do to so many failures and such. (the vent helps the longevity of the sensor and also makes it easier to spot a failing sensor.)

Do not base your oil pump's life on your engines mileage or one day you may stop having oil pressure. That is like smelling and looking at ATF and saying it is good or bad, that is not the correct way that you go about things. ATF can look and smell brand new but, as many of my jobs have taught me, you cannot go by this.

ATF can require replacement no matter how it looks or smells. Same with an oil pump, especially the aluminum bodied ones in our 660 motors. Not to say the pump will fail but, from my experience the 660 oil pumps aren't exactly made by NASA, they do not always wear evenly. This is the case with any mass-produced engine part though but, the oil pump is the MOST essential part of the engine. (aside from the block)

Basically, if you use the car for any kind of performance, and you actually care about the car, you should think about replacing it around 100K miles.

Heck, I just replaced one in my daily driver car. Why did I? The engine had no need for a pump and the pump spec'd pretty good for measurements.

But, to play it smart, you replace the pump and you know that the pump shouldn't fail until around 200K or so. Also, many (most) engines will have a sludgy build under the sump of the pump. Also, the sump-screen may be sludged up. That hinders performance and can also help to suck the bottom of the pan really close to the sump (if you've never seen this happen, it makes you really wonder how much oil the pump can even pull in.)

Now, I'm not trying to be an ass about all this. I'm sure I sound like one but.. Look at it this way, you are supposed to replace cooling system hoses before they break. if you have one break, in most cases, you are the idiot. Now, if you have an oil pump failure, it is a hell of a lot worse of an outcome than would be a blown hose.

Plus, a molded upper or lower radiator hose could be $10-$12, an oil pump is only a few more dollars.

I just noticed - "Shooting for 13's & 200+whp!" - yeah, if you want to drag race, you should defenitely think about making sure the motor is up to specs.

I'm that dude that sits there and babbles on.

-Dave

[dbtk2]

First off, it is NOT at all a lot of work, it would take about 12 minutes to do. The oil pan bolts are cake and the pump has one bolt. But, I wouldn't worry about it.

I would like to see you pull the pan off the engine in 12 minutes. My engine is in my car, I never took it out of the car because everything I needed to get to was easily accessable with the engine in the car. It probably wouldn't have taken me any longer to take it out and do the work with the engine out of the car and then put it back in, but I didn't want to pull it out, so I didn't.

I completely understand where you are coming from about the oil pump. Obviously it could fail at any time. However I am only 16 and I don't have money just sitting around that I can just buy new parts for because they might quit eventually, and I don't really have the time to replace it either (especially with how much of the engine is put together now). My car has 77k on it, it appears that it was very well maintained by previous owner(s), the engine was VERY clean on the inside when I tore it apart, and it has great oil pressure now. Like you said, the pump could fail at any time, but so could a new one. If it fails and I don't notice the oil pressure gauge falling then the engine will fail...oh well, that will be my screw up.

I don't dragrace the car often, I've been to the dragstrip twice ever with the car, its made like 10 total passes, and I've made 2 pulls on a dyno, thats all, its just kind of a hobby on the side. Its my daily driver so I can't afford to dragrace it much. When I get my engine build done I am going to take it to the track and see what it runs and hope for 13's...then I'll take it to the dyno and see what it puts out...and that will probably be the only time it will ever see the track or a dyno again.

You say the oil pumps should be replaced at 100k for preventative maintenance, well look at it this way. The car is 15 years old and has 77k on it. So in another 5 years, if driven the same amount as in the last 15 years, it will have 100k on it and I will replace the oil pump. I don't drive much. I work 5 miles away, and I live in a small town...no need to do a lot of driving. I also have a bike that enjoy riding, so I ride that instead of driving a lot.

Now if I had the oil pan off the engine then I probably wouldn't hesitate to replace it, but I don't, it would be difficult to pull off, so I'll do it eventually when I have time. I think I would do my other TGP first, it has 122k on it, but it holds better oil pressure (according to the gauge anyways) so I'm not too worried.

Shawn