300 hp N/A carb 2.8 V6 engine

[SappySE107]

Maybe its a translation issue because this has nothing to do with an email. The heads, as you got them, could have been sent back and done to our stage 3 port spec. Not any more.

[veekuusi]

Maybe its a translation issue because this has nothing to do with an email. The heads, as you got them, could have been sent back and done to our stage 3 port spec. Not any more.

Do not worry , I am not going to send back to you.
But the point was , why the stage-3 spec because in the email you say , the stage-2 is ideal
for a carb engine.
At least , that is how I understood the message.

[3400-95-Modified]

Yes that is how I also read it, Ben stated that Stage 2 would be ideal for carb, but you flowed them and you don't agree or like the flow numbers so you decided to modify them. He was stating that he would have been willing to re-do them at the stage 3 porting after you identified your disapproval with the stage 2 flow numbers. Obviously all of this is out the window now because of what you did to them.

I think the big problem here is basic communication loss and it could be greatly due to the language barrier... I think if I had a set of numbers in my head for flow characteristics then I would have identified that to the seller in the beginning to make sure he could validate his work and ensure he could hit those numbers. But if you don't tell the buyer what your looking for in concrete numbers then you can't complain when you get something that isn't quite what you were wanting.

[SappySE107]

"Could you give me the price for a pair of “stage-3 3400 cylinder heads”.
With Manley race valves but with out springs and retainers.
And the most important thing, with 7/16” rocker arm bolt threads.
The thread has to be opened to bigger rocker studs, and helicoil threads has
to be done.
I have done the 7/16” threads my self here to earlier heads, it is not so easy.
Therefore I prefer to make first the 7/16” threads and after that if the work has been
succesfully, ported the heads.
Maybe a professional machine shop like you, has more experience with the threads."

That is the original email sent to Wot Tech ,10-24-2015.
And I expected to get best 3400 heads .
But now it seems that I have got a bad flowing set of 3100 heads.

This is where I am coming from with the stage 3 heads. You quoted me saying that stage 2 is better for the velocity. You took a die grinder and removed at least 3 times as much material as we had done. That to me says you wanted stage 3 and were not concerned with velocity.

[Will'sFiero]

How many carbed engines have you helped set up?

"Stage 2 for use with a carb" just comes off like "These heads work best when used with a cam." What carb? 350 CFM? 750 CFM? 4 barrel? Six pack? Lift & duration on the cam? Max acceptable valve size?
If this and much more information wasn't exchanged, there is zero chance the customer will get what he wants.

[34blazer]

How many carbed engines have you helped set up?

"Stage 2 for use with a carb" just comes off like "These heads work best when used with a cam." What carb? 350 CFM? 750 CFM? 4 barrel? Six pack? Lift & duration on the cam? Max acceptable valve size?
If this and much more information wasn't exchanged, there is zero chance the customer will get what he wants.

The goals for this engine has been laid out for the past few years. The combination is the same and all of us who have been following the progress know some of the restrictions imposed by the class Ari is racing in. The cam specs and carbs are also in this(or the prior) thread. So basically this is a high rpm, max effort type engine, IMO. Not disagreeing with you Will, but I am pointing out what the goals and expectations were. Even if I didn't read any of the content of this thread, I would have at least saw the title of this thread(considering the owner of the business the owner of this site) and would have been tipped off by the "300hp NA 2.8" title. I'd say to myself, "This guy wants a set of heads, and he has a 300hp goal, these heads will need XXX work done to even come close to achieving his goal. I'd better get some specifics on his combo..."

[SappySE107]

How many carbed engines have you helped set up?

"Stage 2 for use with a carb" just comes off like "These heads work best when used with a cam." What carb? 350 CFM? 750 CFM? 4 barrel? Six pack? Lift & duration on the cam? Max acceptable valve size?
If this and much more information wasn't exchanged, there is zero chance the customer will get what he wants.

You are quoting a private email message between myself and Ari, and acting like we are advertising the stage 2 heads for carbs on our site.

[Guest]

That's not how I read Will's reply at all...

[SappySE107]

Ok.

It doesn't really matter how anyone reads my email. Sorry I didn't say "for your setup, with its 2.8 liters of displacement, and specific cam specs, and number of carbs, etc etc, I would use the stage 2 heads". I should have realized everyone would read everything I say and be certain to systematically detail every observation and nuance to the job I am doing. I am terribly sorry for everything I have done to all of you regarding this thread and Ari's heads.

[veekuusi]

We cheched with pitot-tube , what limits the flow in the intake channel.
The pencil is pointed to the area where the blockade is.
There the flow is maximum.



And there is a wide area just before the intake valve in the intake channel.
You could imagine , that is good for the flow.
But we noticed vice versa.
There is just standing air, no flow at all.
We think that GM engineers designed this engine a "lean burn engine".
That wide area is good in the low rpm area.
It makes the air spin.
But in the 5000-8000 rpm area, there is no use for that widening. Air just goes straight to
the cylinder.



There is no great importance , if the heads flow 318 hp or 337 hp.
I am winning or losing the races despite of the flow nimbers.
So lets forget this argument and carry on .....
I try to get the heads together and install them to the block this weekend.

[1QUICKHATCH]

Did you do any of the same tests on the exhaust ports?

[veekuusi]

Did you do any of the same tests on the exhaust ports?

No tests on the exhaust ports.

The new 3100 heads use Fel-Pro 98004 intake gaskets.
They are some 3 mm smaller on the top of the intake ports than Fel-Pro
98003 gaskets that was used earlier with the 3400 heads..
The major flow is there on the upper part of the port.

[Purple pit]

The lip on the sides and bottom will disrupt flow too. That is a no go. Can you cut some of the gasket off the top? Looks like you could if that would be enough. Then it would be down to matching the gasket(cutting and equal amount off first). Also some gasket maker(brush on style) would help seal it all up. I know it's a basic way of thinking, but I'm a basic guy and this is a unique case.

Does leave a lot of blending work to do though.

[veekuusi]

Custom intake , for twin Weber 45 mm carbs.
And roller rockers.
But nothing new, you have seen them before.

[veekuusi]

The water plug thread in the new 3100 head is bigger than in the old 3400 head.
I have to get some kind of adapter.




The first race of this 2016 season was this week end. I could not take part in the race.
Next race is in a one months time.
Target is there.