advice on a 3400 series

[deimmortales]

Okay im going to start off with the owner of a jaguar that i worked on for the owner a week before decided to blow into my 05 cavy w/ a m45 eaton sc, which i miss dearly. So hes paying for my new ride. I test drove a 04 pontiac grand am sedan gt and fell in love with it. But its pushing less power then the cavy. the power range im looking for is between 275-300hp. So im wondering if a m90 is big enough or too big. I cant go too big on power because i dont think the 4sp a/t will hold much over 300hp. I plan on pretty much doing a sc, cams, headers. if i decide i want to go bigger i think the 5sp manual transmission from the older cavys w/ the 3400 series will bolt up but im not too sure. so basicly is the m90 just big enough or is it too big for the power range im looking for because i dont want to be out of a car while im searching for a old cavy transmission. is the power i want to make reasonable with these modifications? without killing the a/t tranny while i search for the manual?

ps: i apologize if this is in the wrong thread./ repeat thread

[Purple pit]

There is no manifold for a SC on a 3400. Not to say that it has never been done. Hood clearance is just not there at all, it would be sticking way out.

[Guest]

A remote mount would be the way you would need to install the SC, which there used to be a couple kits available.

Also no cavaliers ever had 3400s (from the factory), on top of that no 3100 or 3400 was equipped with a manual trans (from the factory).

[Purple pit]

The M45 is the Cobalt SS SC and is an easy(less pump, injectors, etc) bolt on for an Ecotec powered 05 Cavy. He just forgot to add "2.2L Ecotec".

[Guest]

The M45 is the Cobalt SS SC and is an easy(less pump, injectors, etc) bolt on for an Ecotec powered 05 Cavy. He just forgot to add "2.2L Ecotec".

Uh huh...

Re-read the OP's post about where he wants to pull a trans from "a 3400 equipped older cavy"...

I was correcting that information, that there were none...

[deimmortales]

I know people have put 3400 in their cavaliers, and im 85% certain it was manual trans but now im doubting myself. at any rate if room is a issue maybe i could try a similar size procharger? Im not too sure about that kind of sc but ive seen them in ford mustangs. but i dont think i need one as big as the one i saw. i was thinking if i got some kind of aftermarket/bodykit hood it might fit but im not sure how much taller it would have to be because the 60degrees vs the 90 on the 3800

ps- maybe a smaller sc but not as small as the m45 im pretty sure that would restrict the motor if i put that tiny thing on the 3400. my goal is to make a good amount of torque without killing the auto trans

[1988GTU]

2nd gen's had the manual trans with v6 option. 3.1L MPFI (not 3100) was slapped in those 2nd gens. Might be best to stick with a GA with a 2.4L and donate your cavaliers parts to it.

[Purple pit]

Uh huh...

Re-read the OP's post about where he wants to pull a trans from "a 3400 equipped older cavy"...

I was correcting that information, that there were none...

Oops, missed that. Must be bad eye sight. Getting old sucks!

[deimmortales]

does the 3100 mpfi and 3400 have the same/similar bell housing pattern? or would the transmission not bolt up?

[carbon]

I kid, I kid... sort of...

Yes, the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 liter engines of all generations use the same Metric bell housing pattern. As well as the Iron Duke, 3800, Northstar/Aurora, LS4 V8 and the push rod 2200 in the J-bodies.

[caffeine]

I always thought it was easiest to swap a Getrag F23 into the Grand Ams due to them being available factory with the F23/4-cylinders. The correct F23 to use with the 3400 would come from the 00-02 J-bodies with the 2.2 pushrod engine.

[Guest]

I kid, I kid... sort of...

Yes, the 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 liter engines of all generations use the same Metric bell housing pattern. As well as the Iron Duke, 3800, Northstar/Aurora, LS4 V8 and the push rod 2200 in the J-bodies.

This is MOSTLY correct. There are differences between Longitudinal and transverse mounted engines, and most of it has to do with the starter location. It's on one side of the block for transverse and the other for longitudinal. The lower bolt hole on the left side of the block is threaded on the longitudinal, and drilled through for the transverse mounted engines. The shape of the ear on the left side is also different between the two iterations.

Also, regarding the "Iron Duke" this name really refers to the '60's version of the Pontiac 2.5L, but has been used for later iterations as well. The true Iron duke from what I have been able to find out has the possibility of a few different bellhousing patterns. The later version, more correctly callled a "4-Tech" or just "Pontiac 2.5L" had teh small corporate pattern, since it was mainly used in vehicles that shared engine options with the 60 degree V6.

[deimmortales]

fair enough carbon x.x sorry so if thats true then i dont think il have a problem finding a 5 sp manual trans for it. and to fix the sc sticking out of the hood problem il probably use some kind of hood scoop to hide it sticking out, the airflow from it might help cool everything down in there anyway if the air is going around the sc

[carbon]

This is MOSTLY correct. There are differences between Longitudinal and transverse mounted engines, and most of it has to do with the starter location. It's on one side of the block for transverse and the other for longitudinal. The lower bolt hole on the left side of the block is threaded on the longitudinal, and drilled through for the transverse mounted engines. The shape of the ear on the left side is also different between the two iterations.

Are the bell housing patterns Metric? Did I say they are all direct swaps? Was he looking for block compatibility or FWD Metric pattern manual transmissions?

Also, regarding the "Iron Duke" this name really refers to the '60's version of the Pontiac 2.5L, but has been used for later iterations as well. The true Iron duke from what I have been able to find out has the possibility of a few different bellhousing patterns. The later version, more correctly callled a "4-Tech" or just "Pontiac 2.5L" had teh small corporate pattern, since it was mainly used in vehicles that shared engine options with the 60 degree V6.

No Duke, or 4-Tech, out of a Fiero, F-body, N-body, J-body or S-series is going to have the BOP or SBC pattern. Thanks for clearing that up though...

Sorry, I'm grumpy. It's Monday.

[Guest]

Are the bell housing patterns Metric? Did I say they are all direct swaps? Was he looking for block compatibility or FWD Metric pattern manual transmissions?



No Duke, or 4-Tech, out of a Fiero, F-body, N-body, J-body or S-series is going to have the BOP or SBC pattern. Thanks for clearing that up though...

Sorry, I'm grumpy. It's Monday.

For someone new to the 660 game, it helps to clarify for THEM, that there are indeed differences that could make it difficult to use one engine in another application, even though most of the differences are minor, they can be major hurdles in some chassis'. For instance, trying to use a gen3 660 in an S-series would require the use of a remote mounted oil filter due to the way the original oil filter would interfere with the starter location, and the block does not have enough material to drill the other side of the block for the longitudinal starter location, among other fitment issues. So while you just wanted to breeze over some very generic information that is possibly confusing or misleading to someone new to the 660 (and other engines that were used in similar applications with similar bellhousing patterns), I thought I'd take the time to clarify some of the information so that they may not get in over their head without realizing what needs to be done before buying anything.