Aftermarket Cams in the 3.1L

[IDCavalier]

Thanks! I got the springs to go with it, but the rocker studs are not adjustable. Bob said that I should have adjusted them, but I can't.


Any Ideas? ARP makes 10mm studs that are 3/8" up to to allow for adjuster nuts to then be used.


Do you think that even with the restrictive top I could gain some more power with new ratio rockers?

The only help I had at the time was a Chilton Manual, but it told me about the 3/8" difference in pushrods, so I made sure not to mess that up.

That's what I don't get. I tried so hard to do it just right, and now I have less power than the tired stocker.

The "new" motor was a 1992, but it seems identical to the one I pulled.

[Superdave]

they are non adjustable and that's fine. Your geometry is stock so there is no need to buy new adjustable studs. Yes, the 1.6 rockers will pick up a little power but it seems like you have something else going on.


Have you checked for trouble codes or (not sure if you have the equipment) datalogged it? If you were close to eastern Iowa i'd just come take a look, lol.


Did you follow the cam break in procedure and are you keeping a Zinc additive in your oil? I almost wonder if the cam or lifter was damaged.

Knock sensor hooked up and good?

[IDCavalier]

Thanks! Road trip!

Not seriously. Well, not yet anyway!

I'm running Dynamic EFI's EBL P4 Flash ECM, so I have full access to DTCs and Datalogging. http://www.dynamicefi.com/

The guy's name is Bob. He has been very cool to me since I bought the ECM. (should be! the P4 flash ECMs are $500 if you buy the whole ECM!) That was the most expensive part I've ever put on this car. But there have been times when he had lost patience when I was tuning in circles, but he has helped me begin to learn how to tune.

When I first suspected problems, I ran a compression check and Got 180 psi on five of the cylinders and 184 on number 5 (or was it 6?) --This was before I got the ECM

I followed the break-in procedure with break-in oil + Zn additive. I used that nasty, expensive (but included with the cam) lube on the lobes during install.

You're right, it sounds like I have something else going on!

I checked most of the lifters and lobes when I changed pushrods, everything looked really good.

Upon advice from some local SBC speed shop guy, I used 10mm washers as shims under the studs to attain the proper lifter preload: ~.100"

(that was a pain, miking all those washers to find the right thicknesses)
Needless to say, the car's behavior has been improving since I got the valves to close now. I've heard of valve overlap, but that was ridiculous!

It doesn't surge nearly as much at idle now and it's more consistent in power level. But it's still low in power.

[IDCavalier]

I have not added Zn to my oil for about a year, but I did for the first 3 oil changes. The issue started just as soon as I got it together.

I quit buying Zn for a car that has been so problematic!

If it will give me something back, I might buy it some more Zinc! Ha ha

Thanks for the help! I feel kinda like I'm the only 60v6 enthusiast in Idaho! Nobody I talk to around here seems to know anything about them.

"go to a forum" they say!

[ericjon262]

did the gen 2 motors get roller cams?

[Superdave]

nope, flat tappet. Same cam as the gen 1's

.1 is not proper lifter preload at all, it should be around .040".

Can you post up your bin file? There are a few constants that could cause some pretty large power losses that a non 60v6 guy might not know about.

[IDCavalier]

Right. Flat tappet.

Wow! Sure I can post the bin, but I'm not sure how to do it.

Is there a drop box or something? Never mind - I figured it out

[IDCavalier]

BIN file

Here is a recent bin file ...

I may have made some fuel trim since then, but otherwise it's the same one I'm running now.

2012_Bosch_Injectors_00004.bin

[IDCavalier]

EBL_P4_V10_ADV.XDF

BATZ SA_HRST_CCP_EGR_ON_SA_Max_38_00023.bin

OK

Here is the MOST RECENT bin file and the advanced XDF to go with it.

[ericjon262]

nope, flat tappet. Same cam as the gen 1's

.1 is not proper lifter preload at all, it should be around .040".

Can you post up your bin file? There are a few constants that could cause some pretty large power losses that a non 60v6 guy might not know about.

Bob @ Dynamic EFI is pretty good on tuning, he's one of the Mods on TGO, I'd imagine he would have caught it if one of the constants was off.

[Superdave]

Noticed that, still see some things in the bin file that don't look right though.


IDCavalier, if possible do you still have the stock computer and chip that you could swap back in to the car? That would help point us in the right direction.

[IDCavalier]

Yeah, he's good!

I am new to tuning so I don't know what a constant is.

I know that the EBL P4 Flash is badass tho. I just wish I could make the most out of its potential.

There are a lot of things called scalars in the advanced xdf that I don't know how they might affect performance.

Bob has been a great help to me.

What is TGO?

[IDCavalier]

I do.
But I had to do some pin swaps for the EBL P4, so it will take a little time to swap it back.

That's a great idea though. I have not used the stock ecm since long before I readjusted the lifter preload.

Which, by the way, was actually discovered by Bob over the phone. I was telling him about the cam swap when we figured it out.

Noticed that, still see some things in the bin file that don't look right though.


IDCavalier, if possible do you still have the stock computer and chip that you could swap back in to the car? That would help point us in the right direction.

[IDCavalier]

I can leave the wb hooked up to watch the afr, but I can't datalog without the P4.

[Superdave]

the value you have for Initial SA seems wrong. I haven't used an EBL but in the other OBD1 masks for the 60v6 initial SA is 9.14 degrees. ($A1 code which is stock for your car)

In the standard masks we also have a value called "Spark reference angle" which is 59.86 degrees (60).


Your value of 69.96 looks like he added those 2 together.. which is what his mask may need but I'd ask him about it, he may have more info as i know nothing about how he's designed that mask.



Also, that extended SA table needs some work



I looked into the EBL for mine, it has some cool features but i just stuck with the '7730 and bought an emulator to tune the code that was built for the engine/platform. i ran that in my '91 Z24 with various wild engines for 9 years and have had the same ecm in my Camaro for 3 years now. (Search user "Whitelightning2" on Youtube for videos of my Cavalier and Camaro)

Since your car is still stock the most you'll pick up from tuning is like 5 or 6 HP, IMO it's just easier to run the stock tune till you get into wilder engine builds. Then you'll at least get to enjoy the car.