Make Power in a 3.1 F-body for a reasonable price

[inkedpunk]

Does anyone have any good ideas on how to make some good power in a '91 F-body with a 3.1 and try to keep the cost down to a students budget????

[dbtk2]

Forced induction is going to give you the most power per $. I would definately look for some sort of turbo or supercharger for it. Due to the lack of aftermarket for these engines, going N/A and making a lot of power gets expensive. It can be done, no doubt, it just seems to me that forced induction would be cheaper and there would be a lot less work involved.

Shawn

[StudlyCamaro]

get a 3.4L from a 93-95 car and spray a small shot of giggle gas

[ProjectMM]

i totally agree No22222222222 is the cheepest fun!!!!!!!! just make sure it's a wet system. you'll need lots more fuel!!!!!!! probably around a 50 shot would be good!

[StudlyCamaro]

stock pistons should handle a 50 shot fine, and much cheaper than forced induction

[Cliff8928]

You could always make it like that turbo'd Z28 which has the turbo way in the back where the muffler is normally mounted... That would be unique and not too expensive if ya found an inexpensive turbo at the junkyard...


Cliff Scott
89 BerettaGT
89 Volvo740

[no1kicker]

Maybe start with an underdrive pulley set and 1.6 rockers if they are made for the car.

[dbtk2]

I would think the ffp underdrive pulley would fit, but maybe not. The rocker arms should be the same as ours, so that shouldn't be a problem either. They would definately help a little, but they wouldn't give a huge gain.

But as I said before, forced induction is the cheapest power per $ if you really start adding it up. Yeah, it will cost more in the beginning, but you dump $500-$1000 into a turbo setup and you just gained an EASY 50hp. Probably twice that with a nicely designed system, an intercooler, and some decent tuning...maybe even more. If you want to invest in all new parts, you could have a nice brand new turbo setup for under $2k EASILY. If you buy little stuff piece by piece and your only gonna add like 5hp here and 5hp there, and its gonna cost you much more money to add that much power. And nitrous really isn't cheaper than a custom turbo setup if you think about it. The original nitrous setup (bottle, bottle heater, etc...), to get a decent setup will cost you $500 at least. You can get a junkyard turbo and make a custom intercooler and fab up your exhaust for that much...you also won't have to fill up the bottle all the time, and you will get a larger gain from it. It also isn't as good for the engine to run nitrous, AND the best part of the turbo IMO is that the power is always there...not just when you're spraying. If I used nitrous on the street in place of my turbocharger I would go through like a bottle a day...with the turbocharger I don't have to worry about making sure its spraying and worrying about running out all the time. I know if I get in an step on the gas it will get 10psi boost and pull the car right along, and its not costing me any money other than the additional fuel I am burning. With nitrous, its costing you every time you step on it, not only in gas, but in the nitrous as well. The turbo just costs one price up front and then nothing for a LONG time until it needs to be rebuilt, which could be an easy 100,000+ miles.

Just my $.02.

Shawn

[EspanolaGuitarista]

Cheap power....

1)Call standard abrasives and get a porting kit and their power porting video. That would put you out maybe 150.00. Then pocket port the head.
2)Find a 2001+ intake out of a yard if possible. 200-300???
Port match the intake and port out your exhaust manifold bigger than the exhuast port by no more than a 1-2mm.Then blend back for a nice transition.
3)Of course the new intake will have the bigger throttle body.
4)High-flow cat -200$
5)straight pipe to a turbo muffler and dump before the dead axle. 100$??

$600.00??? for about 30 horsepower. I know porting that head will make 15 at least. That intake manifold supposedly is 15 more. A cam is iffy with these computers but a 209/209 would tach on another 10. So I think 30 is a safe number. Of course the underdrive pulleys and the poly mounts are
a cheap source of a little bit of hp. Don't count on that mod for much except for smoothness and harder launches.

[StudlyCamaro]

Re: Cheap power....

2)Find a 2001+ intake out of a yard if possible. 200-300???
3)Of course the new intake will have the bigger throttle body.

tje 3.1 L has gen I heads... the new manifolds wont work at all

[EspanolaGuitarista]

Ok...

Pull the heads with the intake and there you go. From what I read the new heads for the 2001 model year work in conjunction with the higher flowing intake. Bolt on 25 hp. Then pocket port those heads. 30-35 hp??? Plus headers and 10.5:1 comp. That gives me a great idea! Hmmm...It smells like....yes...220 horsepower! That would rock. Need a that cam though with the higher comp. Tomorrow I'm calling around to all the dozens of yards in Bako. Do you think I can run 14's with 220. I think so.

[dbtk2]

I'm not sure about this, but wouldn't the topend from a Gen III not fit his RWD setup properly? I would think that would put the TB at the back of the engine bay by the firewall. That would be good setup flow wise, however like I have already said a few times, a turbo setup would be less work then rebuilding the whole topend and it would be cheaper. Getting the better heads/intake and then porting them on top of that would be expensive. Then you would have to spend the $ on getting headers as well. And just the gaskets and head bolts for the top end is gonna run you over $200.

With a turbo you can bolt it on (with a little exhaust work), run some coolant and oil lines to it, get an intercooler (if you want, not necessary but will allow you to run more boost), and you would want to get some computer work done probably. And this would be cheaper than a whole new topend, headers, and a P&P job on the heads. And, the turbo has the capability of making more power than the better intake and heads.

My engine stock (which is basically just a regular 3.1 with slightly lower compression, 8.8:1 instead of 8.9:1) with a very small T25 turbo (the proper size for about a 2.4L 4 cyl), and a 7"X12" intercooler, with just a K&N filter and no cat made 182.2whp...which is ~227hp at the flywheel...that was also with a blown head gasket. The car pulled a 14.96 @ 91.7mph with this setup, and you have to remember this is a heavy 4 door GP thats loaded, so its having to pull a lot of weight. Then I got a chip and colder t-stat and got another 4psi boost, which significantly boosted the power. I would say its somewhere around 250 at the engine (which would be a 110hp gain over the N/A 3.1 at 140hp), probably more but I'm trying to be conservative. My trap speeds raised ~3mph, so it was a big difference. The car pulled a best of 14.69 with this setup, but this was with a crappy 60', and again, still that blown head gasket. Now imagine what it would do without a blown headgasket and with a proper sized turbo and an intercooler twice as big. And this is still with the crappy Gen II heads, intake and tb, not to mention the stock cam and bottom end.

We're talking about a lot of power with a turbo setup...significantly more than better heads and intake are gonna get you, and it isn't going to cost you any more money. Then eventually you can also change the cam, heads, intakes, and all that stuff to get even more power if you decide you want it in the future. Thats just the route I would take...although I am partial to forced induction since I have seen how rediculously much it helps.

Shawn

[bszopi]

You can swap the Gen3 onto the Camaro engine fine, just install it backwards so the TB faces forward. There are several other things that need to be addressed. People have done it successfully and gotten good results out of it, but its far from a cheap upgrade.

[StudlyCamaro]

yeah there are a few things that need to be addressed.. longer TB cables, diff fuel lines/rails, shaving the plenum down so it will clear the car, or trimming some of the engine bay perhaps, moding the exhaust system to fit the heads (the bolt holes on the 3X00 top end are farther apart for the exhaust manifolds/headers) getting new pistons to avoid the insane CR that would be caused... the list continues

[skeeterone2]

Turbo questions...

will a diesel turbo work?... what kind of exause work has to be done, and where on the exaust pipe... what needs to bemoved because of the turbo setup?...where do you mount the intercooler?... and where do you get the pipe to do all of this?... and you say you did all of this on basically stock everything you just bolted that bad boy up there and you are having fun... and this is in a Fwd W-body? because i have a 92' lumina euro 4-door thats begging for some Hp.