1996 3100 to 1998/2002 3400 top end

[oklahoma]

Hey y'all

My longtime daily driver, a 1996 3100 Cutlass Ciera, has finally killed its factory LIM gaskets. I have been in and out of enough 60 degree top ends that I want to do something interesting as long as I'm opening it up.

Here's what I am thinking:
Heads and LIM off of a 1998 3400 Pontiac U-van
Reason: These heads and LIM are the big port design with the larger valves and runners.
Reason: 1996-1998 3400 U-van LIM has same heater core hose setup as my car.

UIM and throttle body off of 2002 3400 Pontiac Grand Am
Reason: 2000+ UIMs flow the best
Reason: 3400 TB is larger than my car's TB

I found both of the above donor vehicles fresh and complete at the JY today.

I believe I may need an EGR adapter from WOT Tech and will cross that bridge when I come to it. Otherwise I think little modification is necessary.

The manifolds I want from specifically the van or the GA for reasons noted above, but I suppose I could take the heads from either car--correct? My plan is to take the 1998 van heads to keep them with their LIM.

I can figure out which gaskets to buy.

I believe I should keep the following from my Cutlass Ciera: exhaust manifolds and lifters. Correct?

Finally, should I take the fuel rail and injectors out of the van?

Is there any reason why these 3 should not be joined in holy matrimony? Any comments or advice seriously appreciated. Thanks.

[oklahoma]

Actually, forget using the 1998 van LIM. I will instead be pulling the 2002 GA LIM and just dealing with the heater hose difference.

Is the Grand Am fuel rail a direct fit with my current fuel rail's fuel and electrical lines or should I keep my injectors and rail?

And if the fuel rails are interchangeable (I understand I would use the 2002 pressure reg.) will they do so without me having to tune it?

[bszopi]

Moved for better visibility...

[oklahoma]

Got the 2002 Grand Am heads, manifolds, and TB at the junkyard yesterday.
I'll be using the EGR and press-in water tube from the Grand Am. Keeping my original fuel rail and injectors.
Currently getting everything cleaned up and trying to plan carefully. Seems to me the most pressing issue to resolve is how to hook up my old throttle cables to the new throttle body. Any ideas?

[bszopi]

Didn't say it when I moved your thread, but welcome! IIRC, you have the TB with the built in MAF, correct? This means that the throttle cables are at a weird angle. I'd be more worried about the MAF, as I think its unique, and you can't just swap in any MAF you want. And you can't really program it out of the PCM easily either.

[oklahoma]

Yeah, I've been poking around the car and looking at things today, the TB appears to present the largest challenge. The last 1996 3100 I worked on was in a W-body Grand Prix--which has a TB setup much more like the Grand Am than the Cutlass Ciera--and was remembering that. I can deal with the different water plumbing in the 2002 TB, and it looks like the MAF is not built in; it looks as if i can transfer both my old MAF and TPS to the new TB. Finally, yes, I may have to get creative with the cables. I may have to take them, or at least the ends of them, out of the Grand Am.

[oklahoma]

Took the MAF off of my car and the other one out of the new TB. They look identical so that's good.
The TPS, however, will present more of a challenge. My old one is not quite the same design as the new TB takes so I can't use that. If the new TPS will work with my computer, I'll use it. Both the TPS's take 3 electrical wires but the electrical connectors are different so I would just have to re-wire.
If anyone knows anything about whether this new TPS and my computer may be compatible, let me know.
Also, the idea struck me that I may be able to do something with the throttle cables off a 3400 U-van. Will check that out when I go to the JY this weekend.

[oklahoma]

Current thought on the TPS: the TPS currently in my Ciera is physically a very different design from the one in the Grand Am. But a 1996 3100 Grand Prix has, physically, the same TPS design as the Grand Am. I can hook my current +5 volts, ground, and signal wires into whichever TPS I decide to go with. My reasoning is, I bet another 1996 3100 TPS will be sending out a signal most closely calibrated to what the computer in my Ciera is expecting to get.

Still thinking about the throttle and cruise control to throttle body cables--poked around everything I saw in the GM section of the JY today and didn't see any silver bullets. It may come down to a cut, crimp and solder situation. Does anyone have a method of throttle cable splicing that they recommend?

[Azrael]

The newer fuel rail will fit but I would stick with the older fuel injectors as the flow between the old 3100's and the 3400's are different (somewhere between 17-18 lbs/hr compared to 19 or 22.5 lbs/hr depending on year) plus they use different connectors. I believe all TPS sensors used on these V6's are internally the same. It's basically a potentiometer so you can simply compare the 2 with an ohm-meter. A spare one I have measures between 0.6-3.8kOhms between pins A and C.

[pocket-rocket]

I would have to agree with Azrael on the TPS thing. I don't see GM changing TPS sensors internal workings at all. Simplicity makes things cheaper, cheaper parts means more profit, that and it wouldn't make much sense anyways. The only difference I see between a TPS from this and a TPS from that is the connector location and orientation (angled, straight, top, bottom, ect.).

[oklahoma]

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear about the TPS. The electrical connectors themselves are different--pins in a circle on the newer connector and in a row on my old one--but I have wiring diagrams for them so that's no problem.

So at this point the biggest impediment to me moving forward with this project is probably the throttle cables. Continuing to think about that...

[oklahoma]

I'm told 1996 van cables should work, now just have to get my hands on a pair.

[walterdude]

As far as cables go, if you can't find any stock GM cables that will fit there may be a couple of alternatives to consider... If you can find a shop that works on building/restoring classic/custom motorcycles they are sure to have stuff for doing cables... Also you could try a place that makes custom hydraulic lines,,, the places I've dealt with/worked at can usually do it... Or a place that sells truck parts should have stuff as well... If not you can find the proper ends to solder onto the cable, a Google search should turn something up....
Good Luck!!
Tom...
Also could try a place that works on heavy equipment....

[oklahoma]

bszopi,
I just realized that when I was looking at my TB before I never noticed that strange MAF. Saw the other 2 sensors and somehow missed it. I can work a U-van MAF in front of the new TB if the U-van MAF's signal output will work with my computer. Do you know if it will or will not?

[oklahoma]

Or, how about this, a 3300 A-body MAF? It is not built-in to the TB like in a 3100 A-body, and my Haynes manual wiring diagrams show that the 3300 A-body MAF wires in just like the 3100 MAF. On the other hand, my W-body Haynes manual shows, for example, the 1996 3100 W-car MAF wiring in a bit differently. The W-car MAF is widespread across GM--the U-vans, for example, and some other platforms use the same one. I think the wiring/signals may be A-body specific and for that reason the 3300 MAF may be my best bet.