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Need ideas for the next build.

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  • #1

    Need ideas for the next build.

    Hey everyone, Was doing some maintence on my 81 2.8 lo-po and found that even though it was troopering on, the engine is pretty much cooked. Dont think the engine was hurt much and it still fires up and no strange noises (runs fine except a dead cylinder). So my dad mentioned yanking the motor and rebuilding it. Yea, donor engines are cheap but, being an 81, this block was made for only 2 years and swapping to a later engine will involve major work I dont want to put into the car. What I am thinking is to take org. motor, machine the block to accept a 3.1 crank, sbc rods, h.o. heads, custom exhaust, 4bbl. carb and hi rise intake. I want to bump the performance somewhat but while being dead nuts reliable.
    Can you help me in deciding which cam & pistons to use as well as other "reliable performance" tips?
    TIA.
    Tuning a car is full of compromises. You must decide if you are willing to give up either reliability, performance, or a whole load of cash. Also remember that repairs will seem to come up much more often as you strive for even more performance
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  • #2
    how is swapping to a different motor any more work?
    Last edited by bob442; 12-27-2010, 12:48 AM.

    Its runs!!!>>>Aint No 60* Sound Like Mehttp://youtu.be/YKEmNwa141U

    Comment

    • #3
      How about building a 3x00 with a 4wheel drive tranny and boosting it up. I always wanted to do that as the acceleration would be nuts. Imagine 4 tires pulling as much as possible just before tire spin. The acceleration would be neck bending for sure.

      Well, not sure if any 3x00 have 4 wheel trannies. But if there were any it would be fun to drive boosted to 1bar.

      UPDATE: 1989 Pontiac 6000 STE w/ AWD
      Drop in a built up 3100 LH0, boost it up and let the fun begin.

      Not sure but maybe the AWD disengages to FWD after 25 mph. Still would provide excellent take off traction.
      Last edited by Schmieder; 12-27-2010, 09:29 AM.

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      • #4
        I'd use a newer block for sure, those old 2.8 blocks were not the greatest.

        You really aren't going to gain much over your stock 2.8 going to a 3.1, even with the "HO" heads (which shouldn't be called HO) and a streetable cam you might gain 15 HP.

        It would be really nice if we could get a carb/TBI intake manifold that fits the gen3 aluminum heads.
        Past Builds;
        1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
        1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
        Current Project;
        1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Schmieder View Post
          How about building a 3x00 with a 4wheel drive tranny and boosting it up. I always wanted to do that as the acceleration would be nuts. Imagine 4 tires pulling as much as possible just before tire spin. The acceleration would be neck bending for sure.

          Well, not sure if any 3x00 have 4 wheel trannies. But if there were any it would be fun to drive boosted to 1bar.

          UPDATE: 1989 Pontiac 6000 STE w/ AWD
          Drop in a built up 3100 LH0, boost it up and let the fun begin.

          Not sure but maybe the AWD disengages to FWD after 25 mph. Still would provide excellent take off traction.

          Yah, and watch the TH125 scatter all over the road... haha
          Past Builds;
          1991 Z24, 3500/5 Spd. 275WHP/259WTQ 13.07@108 MPH
          1989 Camaro RS, ITB-3500/700R4. 263WHP/263WTQ 13.52@99.2 MPH
          Current Project;
          1972 Nova 12.73@105.7 MPH

          Comment

          • #6
            All good ideas guys. Let me address them in turn. First off, swapping in a newer engine is more difficult because the subframe is completely different. To install a new engine means custom mounts or hammer the firewall and swap in a a new subframe, exhaust, and everything else.
            Going AWD is also out because that would require swapping the entire floor pans, suspensions and ALOT more. Plus, even though most of the awd components were built to handle 400hp, the 3 speed auto transfer case components were disasterisly weak. In fact, they could barely stand up to the stock 3.1.
            Superdave, why shouldnt the heads be called "HO"? I mean, granted, they dont flow like the alum. heads but considering they have bigger valves than my current lo-po heads, they should flow better. Also, my mill came with a mere 115 stock and a stock "HO" engine had 135hp so thats a gain there. Add a decent cam, intake, and exhaust, and wouldnt you think that 155~160hp would be reliable and realistic? Shoot, thats a 40hp bump from my stock. It would be nice if there was a carb'd intake for the alum. heads, but sadly, there isnt and I'm not in a position to make one so thats out.
            Tuning a car is full of compromises. You must decide if you are willing to give up either reliability, performance, or a whole load of cash. Also remember that repairs will seem to come up much more often as you strive for even more performance

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Superdave View Post
              It would be really nice if we could get a carb/TBI intake manifold that fits the gen3 aluminum heads.
              I really need to get my ass in gear and get that damn thing deisgned...
              -Brad-
              89 Mustang : Future 60V6 Power
              sigpic
              Follow the build -> http://www.3x00swap.com/index.php?page=mustang-blog

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by bszopi View Post
                I really need to get my ass in gear and get that damn thing deisgned...
                I'd be happy to test a prototype for ya........
                Tuning a car is full of compromises. You must decide if you are willing to give up either reliability, performance, or a whole load of cash. Also remember that repairs will seem to come up much more often as you strive for even more performance

                Comment

                • #9
                  Actually if I had a carb intake and have plenty of gen3 intakes, they can be welded together. Maybe not as good or easy to re-produce as Brad designing one from scratch, but it would work.
                  Links:
                  WOT-Tech.com
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Superdave View Post
                    Yah, and watch the TH125 scatter all over the road... haha
                    LMFAO!!!!
                    our only option is the versitrac for AWD.
                    As far as a different motor, the block bosses are basically the same or transplanable are they not? the motor mounts unbolt from the old motor and bolt to the new one

                    Its runs!!!>>>Aint No 60* Sound Like Mehttp://youtu.be/YKEmNwa141U

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bob442 View Post
                      LMFAO!!!!
                      our only option is the versitrac for AWD.
                      As far as a different motor, the block bosses are basically the same or transplanable are they not? the motor mounts unbolt from the old motor and bolt to the new one
                      No, the block bosses are not the same. The current engine has a "L" shaped mount that the bolts are far apart. The '82+ engine mounts were "U" shaped and the bolts were close together. And where the mount mounts to the cradle is different.
                      Tuning a car is full of compromises. You must decide if you are willing to give up either reliability, performance, or a whole load of cash. Also remember that repairs will seem to come up much more often as you strive for even more performance

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Don't be discouraged by all these 3X00 swappers. Yes we all know it is better but some people don't seem to realize some people just don't want to make the swap. Either due to cash, comfort level or time constraints. There are still people out there that make tons of power off of old iron from all makes and models of engine. They may not be top of their class but they do what is required.

                        You can get close to 200hp with iron heads. But getting more displacement is key. A 2.8L wont do it but you can make your motor into an honest 3.2L by using a 3.1L block and boring it .040" over. You will not be able to do this with your current block because you have small main bearings and a rope seal which will not work on any 3.1L crank and I am not certain the machine work to the block is worth the effort or if the block will even accept it. I am willing to bet GenI and Gen II FWD motors are all the same and you can mount them up without all the work a 3X00 block requires. You can check with your machinist on the price of cutting for bigger valves and buying new valves versus getting your hands on some HO heads and just doing a valve job. After that you can hand clean all the ports and valve pockets. You don't need to be a head porter to do this just use common sense. Also you can gasket match the heads and intake to get a little more port size and eliminate any steps in the intake track.

                        Cam choice is made easy by COMP Cams K kits. I think the 260 cam would make that little car rip. I have a 3.2L Powering my Trooper with the COMP 252 cam and 33's and it runs just as fast as the newer 3.2L DOHC Troopers which are rated at 200HP. For a 4000lb SUV it ain't bad. I can consistently beat 4.6L Powered F150's

                        Whatever you decide to do just do it right. Reliability is far more important than making power.
                        1993 EXT. CAB, 3.4L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. Sonoma
                        1990 4Door, 3.2L V6 TBI, 5spd manual. 4X4. Trooper
                        Because... I am, CANADIAN

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by X11_STE View Post
                          No, the block bosses are not the same. The current engine has a "L" shaped mount that the bolts are far apart. The '82+ engine mounts were "U" shaped and the bolts were close together. And where the mount mounts to the cradle is different.
                          Ok, i know of the rad craddle mount your talking about, how about you use a W body mount, a custom dog bone, and move the craddle mount over for the last problem.

                          See if you can find out what happened to this site:
                          https://www.chevycitationforever.net
                          Last edited by bob442; 12-27-2010, 10:00 PM.

                          Its runs!!!>>>Aint No 60* Sound Like Mehttp://youtu.be/YKEmNwa141U

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Bob, I wasnt tslking about the dog bone mount, rather the engine mount on the pass. side, bottom of engine. The rad. torque strut is easy to make work. Worse case senario, I get the dog bone from Rodney Dickman.
                            Tuning a car is full of compromises. You must decide if you are willing to give up either reliability, performance, or a whole load of cash. Also remember that repairs will seem to come up much more often as you strive for even more performance

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              i cant seem to pull up a picture of it, still gonna try

                              Its runs!!!>>>Aint No 60* Sound Like Mehttp://youtu.be/YKEmNwa141U

                              Comment

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