3500 top swap or turbo??

[recci03]

ive been debating on doing either a 3500 top swap like heads, intake and all that. or running a turbo. my car is my daily driver, so i dont want something that wont run right. some insight would be awesome

[robertisaar]

i vote both.

[Superdave]

you'll pick up some useable power for sure with the 3500 top end however i'd get the ported stuff from wot-tech to get the most out of it.

boost would be fun too and will probably cost about the same however you'll find the limits of your trans pretty quick.

[recci03]

thanks guys. with the ported 3500 LIM, do i need to get the heads ported aswell? and if so, does it flow better (stock) than a 3400 head. and with a cam, can i use the 3400 cam i already have? sorry for all of the questions lol

[robertisaar]

3400 and 3500 cam are identical.

and 3500 heads blow 3400 heads out of the water... and i think a stock 3500 UIM beats a stock 3400 UIM, but when ported the 3400 UIM can breathe better?

[Guest]

This depends on your intended use.

On the surface I'd say turbo, just because I can see more potential gain out of it, at least initially.

The reality comes in, when you realize that your car is just a DD, and will never really benefit from the turbo, unless it's sized differently than most people would tell you to. Most people will say get a hugeXenormous turbo, because it flows the best, and has the highest power potential. The problem here is, that people are assuming you'll be reving to 11tybillion RPM, and only care about top end HP. The reality is, that most people will never truely see the true potential of a hugeXenormous turbo. A smaller turbo that spools just off idle, or maybe a tad higher than that, say around 1500 to 1800 RPM, will make for a fun driver, and you get to actually use some of that potential power. Yeah, you'll likely choke on the top end, but how often do you go 5000+ RPM, and with all the added torque down low, will you need to rev that high now?

After all that, I would likely say that for most people the top end swap will give the added "umph" they are looking for, without adding any extra maintenace to the package.

Basically it boils down to not lieing to yourself and understanding what the real use of the car is, not what you think you are using it for.

Just as an example, I will use my Datsun 240Z. It is my "toy", I bought it knowing it was never going to be a true daily driver, even though when it is together I do drive it a LOT, but it is a car to play with, to push the limits on things, to modify, to have fun with and if it breaks, it goes in the garage to get fixed or upgraded and then look for the next part to break or upgrade. It has a 2.8L I6 in it, a 30 year old engine now, the design/engine family is over 40 years old. I decided to play with the engine that was in the car when I got it, and wanted a turbo again. I happened to have a turbo off a 6.5L diesel, and decided to use it. I can drive around all day and NEVER hit boost, even reving upwards of 2800 RPM, at less than about 30% throttle. But when I puch the loud pedal past 50% and rev upwards of 6000 RPM, there is that impressive torque increase and what the car is all about. This is sized so that I get all that top end power that I want, but would NEVER want this in a DD.

Looking back at my '85 GMC Jimmy that I built with a 3.2L 660 V6, using some small port 3100 top end and a bunch of other mismatched parts, I used a T3 turbo from a 2.3 Ford Turbo Coupe, the turbo spooled by 1800 RPM, and was, if you ignored the lack of tune, fun to drive, but it started shoking about 4800 to 5000 RPM, even though I reved it higher on occasion. I never needed to, and most of the time I would only rev it about 2500 to 3000 RPM, and that was plenty for getting around town. I could also drive around without hitting boost with this vehicle, but I had to think about it and be very gentle on the pedal, I'd say less than 20% throttle, to not get into boost. Did I care? nope, I like boost and the way the boost came in when I was accelerating like a "normal" person, just driving along, it was very smooth and just nice to drive.
The next engine for the truck, involves a slightly larger engine, and a pair of smaller turbos, because I want the bottom end torque increase, not that upper end power.

So what is this long winded post getting at?...

Be honest with yourself about how the vehicle will actually be used, and base your decision on what will benefit you most from dollars and time spent.

[recci03]

that was like eye opening lol. ive been tossing the ideas back and forth, and like you said," what will it be used for?" made me think about taking some time to buy a crap-o car. ive always loved the sound and power coming from the turbo, i was just to afraid to blow up my transmission lol. so with all that said, the top swap will go on, for better flow, then will definitely be getting a turbo slapped on it. i really appreciate what you guys said, and hopefully i will be getting some of this done by summers end. thanks again guys.

[pocket-rocket]

This depends on your intended use.

On the surface I'd say turbo, just because I can see more potential gain out of it, at least initially.

The reality comes in, when you realize that your car is just a DD, and will never really benefit from the turbo, unless it's sized differently than most people would tell you to. Most people will say get a hugeXenormous turbo, because it flows the best, and has the highest power potential. The problem here is, that people are assuming you'll be reving to 11tybillion RPM, and only care about top end HP. The reality is, that most people will never truely see the true potential of a hugeXenormous turbo. A smaller turbo that spools just off idle, or maybe a tad higher than that, say around 1500 to 1800 RPM, will make for a fun driver, and you get to actually use some of that potential power. Yeah, you'll likely choke on the top end, but how often do you go 5000+ RPM, and with all the added torque down low, will you need to rev that high now?

After all that, I would likely say that for most people the top end swap will give the added "umph" they are looking for, without adding any extra maintenace to the package.

Basically it boils down to not lieing to yourself and understanding what the real use of the car is, not what you think you are using it for.

Just as an example, I will use my Datsun 240Z. It is my "toy", I bought it knowing it was never going to be a true daily driver, even though when it is together I do drive it a LOT, but it is a car to play with, to push the limits on things, to modify, to have fun with and if it breaks, it goes in the garage to get fixed or upgraded and then look for the next part to break or upgrade. It has a 2.8L I6 in it, a 30 year old engine now, the design/engine family is over 40 years old. I decided to play with the engine that was in the car when I got it, and wanted a turbo again. I happened to have a turbo off a 6.5L diesel, and decided to use it. I can drive around all day and NEVER hit boost, even reving upwards of 2800 RPM, at less than about 30% throttle. But when I puch the loud pedal past 50% and rev upwards of 6000 RPM, there is that impressive torque increase and what the car is all about. This is sized so that I get all that top end power that I want, but would NEVER want this in a DD.

Looking back at my '85 GMC Jimmy that I built with a 3.2L 660 V6, using some small port 3100 top end and a bunch of other mismatched parts, I used a T3 turbo from a 2.3 Ford Turbo Coupe, the turbo spooled by 1800 RPM, and was, if you ignored the lack of tune, fun to drive, but it started shoking about 4800 to 5000 RPM, even though I reved it higher on occasion. I never needed to, and most of the time I would only rev it about 2500 to 3000 RPM, and that was plenty for getting around town. I could also drive around without hitting boost with this vehicle, but I had to think about it and be very gentle on the pedal, I'd say less than 20% throttle, to not get into boost. Did I care? nope, I like boost and the way the boost came in when I was accelerating like a "normal" person, just driving along, it was very smooth and just nice to drive.
The next engine for the truck, involves a slightly larger engine, and a pair of smaller turbos, because I want the bottom end torque increase, not that upper end power.

So what is this long winded post getting at?...

Be honest with yourself about how the vehicle will actually be used, and base your decision on what will benefit you most from dollars and time spent.

werd