More timing chain bs - look inside

[TiredGXP]

I'd like to know why we don't have a gear drive set for the 60 degree v6 yet?

Gear drives make noise. Tends to be picked up by the knock sensor, which causes the ECM to yank a bunch of timing.

[86FieroSEv6]

Carburetors don't use knock on wood sensors.

[pocket-rocket]

IIRC SBC's have the choice between "noisy" and normal gear drives as well. I've never seen a set of them personally, but I wonder if the normal ones are not strait cut. What if there were a small "twist" to the teeth like manual transmission gears?

[86FieroSEv6]

Normal is still noisy, it's just that the "noisy" set creates a sort of scream over and above the normal "whine" of the gears. I've been doing a little work on my customers '95 Roush and it has an old school Vor-Tech . . . . you wanna talk about gear whine, this thing sounds about like an idling A-10 Warthog!

[3400beretta]

I think one of the main reasons is the fact that the crank and cam are so far apart in our engines, you couldn't fit the gears under the cover. Besides the knock sensor issue I mean.

Anyways, back on topic. Does anyone have a 3.1/2.8 gen 2 timing chain kicking around for comparison? Or am I going to have to make a trip to the junkyard.

[TiredGXP]

I have a new Gen 1 Cloyes chain and gears sitting in a box out in the garage. AFAIK, it's the same as the Gen 2 set.

[3400beretta]

Unfortunately no, it is not the same. The gen 1 stuff is all heavier duty - the same as all of the RWD stuff. I think there was a bit of crossover, about 1985 is when the "gen 2" timing set starting being used, even on some "gen 1" engines.

Also the cloyes sets are all thinner and weaker than their OEM counterparts, so that would not be a good comparison anyways.

[robertisaar]

you're telling me the Gen1 stuff is even better when it comes to TCs? WTF GM?

[3400beretta]

Yup, they are. Too bad the cam design changed to a single bolt, or else I'm sure with a bit of grinding to the timing cover the gen 1 stuff would work.

[Guest]

I think one of the main reasons is the fact that the crank and cam are so far apart in our engines, you couldn't fit the gears under the cover. Besides the knock sensor issue I mean.

Not really an issue, since an idler pulley would be used between the cam and crank gears....

A Gear drive would be the absolute last thing I'd ever use on an engine, and then it would have to be the ONLY choice, even then I'd look for alternatives.

Timing belt on the other hand..... Yum. I've figured out some parts to use to make a timing belt work, just not all of it.

[3400beretta]

Not really an issue, since an idler pulley would be used between the cam and crank gears....

A Gear drive would be the absolute last thing I'd ever use on an engine, and then it would have to be the ONLY choice, even then I'd look for alternatives.

Timing belt on the other hand..... Yum. I've figured out some parts to use to make a timing belt work, just not all of it.

I think you're missing the point. The idler gear(s) would have to be so big to make up the distance, there is no way they would fit under the cover.

[Guest]

I think you're missing the point. The idler gear(s) would have to be so big to make up the distance, there is no way they would fit under the cover.

I think you're not understanding how the gear drives work, they would fit under the cover just fine. There is definatly enough space to make it work, still worst idea I can think of for a timing, but very possible to do, in a 660.

[geoffinbc]

You could use a gear drive in a 660. A 3 gear arrangement with bevel cut gears would be nearly silent. However it still transmits harmonics to the valve train and the cam sensor. Having the oil pump driven by the cam helps to dampen some of the harmonics.

A belt drive would be the cats ass. Making one may be possible with the right combo of off the shelf parts but the timing cover would have to be fabricated. The nice thing about a belt drive is you can run it dry so you can make a flat timing cover, run the belt on the outside. Water pump fabrication would have to be solved as well. You may be able to make block to pump adapters and run an electric pump.

[CNCguy]

The limited space inside the stock front cover complicates most any decent belt or chain design. A gear drive could be made but, IMO, would be too noisy and interfere with the KS. I had thought about doing a timing belt setup but there would be such a limited market with not much chance of recouping the initial investment. Regretfully, many products for the 60V6 are that way.

[geoffinbc]

Agreed with the lack of a rear drive enthusiast type car with the 660 there just are not enough people to buy the high performance parts.