cam shaft swap help

[Rootie524]

i was hoping to get some help for my cam shaft swap im going to do next weekend. i have a 3100sfi v6 malibu.

im going to be doing a strip cam, with valve springs, pushrods, and lifter springs.

Just looking for tips or problems i may run in to. While im in there im also replacing the timing chain and components..so im worried about timing issues. Yes, i know, i can just read a haynes..but i like asking people that have already done it for tips.

[Superdave]

just line up the dots.. can't be more simple than that.


you are pulling the engine right?

[Rootie524]

so just replace everything so the marks line up and put my cam shaft in the same way the old one came out and im good? and no im not pulling the engine..im removing my outer fender and cutting a small hole in my inner fender wall and patching it up with sheet metal when im done. i really dont want to disconnect my tranny and i dont have a lift to be able to drop the sub frame.

[Superdave]

When you get the timing cover off, put a ratchet on the crank bolt and rotate the engine till the mark on the cam gear and the mark on the crank gear are lined up with the center of the chain guide. That will help you get everything back in correctly.

you'll have to take out the distributor plug too, or the cam won't come out. just a FYI


I have one on the stand right now so if you need pics just let me know.

[Rootie524]

yeah if you could take some pics that would be great. i want to try to go into this with as much knowledge as possible. and im a visual learner..lol

[bob442]

if you take a piece of string, and hold it from bolt hole to bolt hole on the crank and cam gears, the dots will line up 100% i'm sure we will all be glad to help you.
It will be easier to pull the motor to do the cam, the timing cover is a bit of a SOAB to get off in the car. its a joke if you have a impact and buzz off the hard to get at bolts when the motor is out

[Superdave]

This took some glow in the dark paint and a badass UV flashlight..





I forgot to grab my saftey glasses so my eyes kinda hurt right now.

[60dgrzbelow0]

Even though my engine is slightly different in appearance, the attached link shows the techniques I used to install a brand new Cloyes "True Roller" Timing set in a VIN "S" 3.4L engine. What is important to know is the technique of cutting the camshaft shipping box in half and laying it lengthwise in the upper portion of the block for stable support. and then only covering one half of the cam journals and lobes with good Engine Assembly Lube (Melling or Federal Mogul) at a time. First, cover the back section with the Helical Oil Pump Drive Gear Interface or Distributor and then... after attaching the old Old Large Cam Timing Gear on the New Camshaft with only two loose bolts... you can use it to act to stabilize and help guide the camshaft into the block in such a way as not to damage the new cam bearings. Then cover the remaining from half of the camshaft lobes and journals with the Assembly Lube.

The best way to lubricate the camshaft bearings prior to installing it is to take the short-spouted Melling Assembly Lube bottle and slip in the red spray tube from a can of WD40 and this will allow you to go through the various oil drain and lifter openings in the upper block to see and properly squeeze out and completely apply this important, necessary and durable lubricant where it really needs to be ...B4...you start to slide the camshaft into the journal holes. Take your time and use your left hand to hold the the camshaft very close to the block while gradually easing in the cam using the large gear in your right hand for leverage. After the back half of the camshaft is inside the block far enough to be supported by two journals... then you can take your time and thoroughly cover all the lobes and and journal surfaces with plenty of Assembly Lube. After that... you can slide the camshaft slowly in all the way...but be mindful that if you have not installed the back plate cam cover with its new cork gasket and three small bolts with Threadlocker and torqued down...once you remove the old Camshaft Timing gear...if your engine stand or car is on an angle downward... the camshaft can and will want to slide out the back of the engine block.

Now... slowly spin the camshaft in place using the large gear for leverage... if you encounter any serious resistance... there might be a problem either with the bearings not being properly inserted in the block or in some cases...requiring an expert hand of a Machinists to scrape them down for a smoother fit. The thick lubricant may cause the camshaft to cavitate and sort of "chatter" as you are spinning it...just slide the shaft back and forth about an eighth of an inch and any trapped air will be released and the shaft will spin smoothly after that. This will cease to be a problem once you have installed the rest of the Timing Set after aligning the six and twelve o'clock positions between the large and small gears and tightened and torqued down the bolts that hold the large gear to the nose of the the camshaft. Double and triple check your alignment with a Machinist's Small Steel Rule (Harbor Freight...for just a few bucks) because no matter how careful you try to be...it is still very easy to mis-align the two gears by a tooth or two... one way or the other when doing this job.

http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss19/60dgrzbelow0/CLOYESTRUEROLLERTIMINGSET/?start=20

This informational link shows what is required to replace and re-seal the back cam cover of the engine:

http://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss19/60dgrzbelow0/CLOYESTRUEROLLERTIMINGSET/?action=view&current=CAMSHAFTBOLTASSEMBLIES.jpg

[Rootie524]

thank you all for your help so far! i really appreciate it. This weekend is when it's all happening. Im not going to rush this at all. Im going to take pictures along the way to help me in reassembly and to post up on here. and i have a huge paper mat where im going to put all the bolts and label where they came from to keep track of it all. I have threadlocker for all the bolts and assembly lube, grease, and oil.

It doesn't seem too challenging..but like i said im worried about timing. when i replace the timing chain and sprockets..that will be easy because i just like it all up with the dots/lines. but is there only one way for the cam to sit in the engine? i dont know cuz i havent done something like this yet, and i may find out along the way but idk. you know what i mean though? could the cam be rotated the wrong way and yield potential timing problems? or will it only ever possibly be all put back together if the cam is in the right spot? hopefully you understand what i mean.

and i was reading the instructions on this that cam from comp cams with the cam and it mentioned the crank shaft alot..it is really necessary to do anything with the crank shaft when installing a new cam? besides the sprocket for the timing chain on the crank shaft..thats it, right?

and if its all installed correctly do i still need to degree the cam? i have no idea how to do that and according to comp cams it requires alot, but how necessary is it?

and lastly, during the break in period..you think its fine to just have regular motor oil in without any sort of additives? i plan to drain the oil in a pan prior, then put back that same oil back in (it only has like 300 miles on it) for the break in period..then after that drain the oil again..put on new filter and fresh 5w-30 oil.

please make sure im on the right track and hopefully your all on call tomorrow if i run into something haha. im not too worried, ive learned alot from these posts and reading instructions..it will just be important not to rush. so thanks again for all the help so far!

[60dgrzbelow0]

Don't be too concerned about screwing up the cam position... There is only one way to install the Camshaft Timing gear into the nose of the Camshaft...an alignment pin takes care of that little detail. Likewise ...do not be concerned about "degreeing" this camshaft with the Stock Timing Set. I cannot speak for your exact motor...which I doubt either needs or uses a Cloyes "True" Double Roller Timing Set as the VIN "S" engines are capable of...but if you did have such an after-market product... they are generally marked on the crankshaft sprocket as either capable of being set to Standard, or +4 Degrees...or -4 Degrees and the Timing Set should come with unique instructions and indelible stampings to clarify which position to choose...one from another as the small sprocket is getting pressed on to the nose of the crankshaft.

Your motor is tuned dynamically by means of sensors mounted to the block that can determine the positions of both the crankshaft and camshaft in order to know when to actuate the EFIs to precisely spray fuel into each respective cylinder and when to cause the spark plugs to fire, either singly or in tandem as each piston approaches Top Dead Center on the compression strokes. These kinds of engines do not generally require the camshaft to be "degreed" since these actions are monitored and controlled by an Electronic Computer Module.

Where you will need to be careful is when you are adjusting the installed lifters, push rods and rocker arms...but not so much with a "roller camshaft" as opposed to engines with flat Tappet hydraulic lifters. There are plenty of other knowing advisers here with engines just like yours that can step in and help you with that part of the process, when the time comes.

The bottom line is... if you make certain that the marker on the small, crankshaft gear is situated at the very top tooth position, pointing up and exactly 12 O'Clock High...and the larger Camshaft Timing Gear marker point is positioned at the very bottom tooth at the 6 O'Clock position as you align the timing chain and adjust the larger gear for this alignment... if you lay a steel ruler next to these two opposing gear teeth...and they are in perfect alignment... you will have done the job correctly. The last thing to do before installing the Timing Chain Damper, Timing Cover and Water Pump... is to follow the process of torquing down any fastener(s) that secure the Large Camshaft gear in place. Use plenty of Engine Assembly Lube on the gear teeth and the back area of the camshaft Timing Gear lubrication plate slots and Timing Chain segments. The aluminum slotted specialty socket tool on the right side of the attached images sells for around $12.00 on eBay and makes aligning the crankshaft with the small gear installed a breeze using a 1/2" drive beam torque wrench to make the necessary slight adjustments in its position.

[60dgrzbelow0]

About "re-using" motor oil that is only 300 Miles old... Lets use the same idea with the water you wash your feet with...Do you think it would be wise...since you only used it once on each foot....to save that water and brush your teeth and gargle with it...? The same idea is involved here. All motor oil is cheap and absolutely necessary to be the right type for the conditions involved. If your camshaft came with a bottle or squeeze tube of special lubricant to be added to your motor oil prior to starting up the engine...you had damned well better use it. If your engine has a roller type camshaft and roller lifters and roller bearing rocker arms... you are not likely to need a 20-25 minute break-in period to harden the metal lobes of the camshaft to resist the huge resistance forces that are encountered by either solid lifters of the flat hydraulic one in the VIN "S" engine. The lobes on your roller camshaft are more "elliptical" and the roller metal surfaces manage to distribute these contact lifting forces with much less resistance, friction and wear...not to mention the possibility of handling much higher RPM than their less friction friendly brethren. Nonetheless... the camshaft manufacturer has the final word on what kinds of oils and additives to use and when to change the lubrication and filter(s) to be safe during the break in period. Follow these recommendations...religiously.

[Superdave]

there is no break in for a roller cam. As long as everything has assembly lube on it it'll be fine...

[Rootie524]

ok so i started..and im at the point where i need to remove my rocker arms, push rods, and the bracket above the lifters to get them out so i can slide my camshaft out. I have a few concerns. Couples of my friends say if i do that i will need to do a valve adjustment when putting it back together. I dont really think so because my haynes doesnt say it, the comp cams instructions dont say it, and from what i remember no one i talked to online said i need to.

so my question. will i need to do a valve adjustment. i will be replacing the springs in the lifter, using custom length pushrods and putting on stiffer valve springs. that is it. I'm not taking the heads off to do this..so im guessing the valves should remain in the same place so an adjustment shouldnt be in order. but ive been wrong before. everything is ready to go im just waiting till i find out more about this

[bszopi]

No, you don't have to. They are talking about valve lash, but with your engine setup, all you need to do is put everything back together and torque it all down.

[CNCguy]

In case no one has said it before, be sure to install the pushrods in the correct locations and properly torque the cam gear retaining bolt. Either can be a very costly mistake resulting in bent valves and/or pushrods like the ones below.