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Just found my perfect turbo.

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  • Just found my perfect turbo.

    My old set-up used an S256 turbo which was perfectly sized for my old 3400 and made full boost at around 2500 with good power untill 6000 rpms. It was an excellent turbo for that motor. However, after calculating the flow requirements for the new motor, I found that it begins to choke after 5000 rpms on the new 3500 motor. This motor is being built to shift at 7200rpms w/ an absolute red-line of 7500rpms, so this turbo will not do.

    I specifically needed a turbo that would deliver 13.99 lbs/min of air-flow at 2000 rpms with a peak air-flow of 52.44 lbs/min at 7500 at a constant pressure ratio of 1.81 (about 12lbs of "pump-gas" friendly boost).

    The map of the GT3582R compressor with a .70 A.R., "anti-surge" ported housing and 2.5in outlet matches that profile exactly. Ill be using a T3 .78 A.R. divided housing and quick-spool valve. Hypothetically, Full Boost should start as low 2000 rpms and remain constant without restriction untill 7495rpms. The flow rate of the map starts at the razor edge of the "surge-limit" and builds flow to the very outer edge of the "choke-limit". It builds its peak efficiency of 80% at 4500-5500rpms with no less than 72% efficiency thoughout the entire usable powerband!.

    Here is a picture of the compressor map with my 3500 rpm required air-flow points super-imposed over it. Its amazing just how well the flow-map matches the air requirements of my engine.



    No lag, no choking. Just a good flat air delivery profile to match powerband of the cam perfectly.
    Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

  • #2
    Sounds like a good setup and you definetly have done your homework! This is the right way to do a turbo setup...you know spend hours at a time figuring everything instead of "buy a turbo and slap it on". Itll pay off in the end. Good luck with your endeavours!!
    sigpic
    94 Firebird 3.4 DD
    252000mi. All original

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    • #3
      Yes, sounds very good! Garrets GT35 series turbos are definitely a good match for these engines.
      '97 Grand Prix GT 3800 (sold)
      '00 Grand Am GT 3400 supercharged
      13.788 @ 103.73 mph, 320whp 300 ft/lbs
      Gotta love boost!

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      • #4
        12lbs will be plenty safe for pump gas and should deliver about 388-400 at the tires at 6500rpms.

        Other than the fact that its a pricey devil, It is definitely the best choice for a DD car.
        Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

        Comment


        • #5
          nice map for sure! gt's are steeply priced! holset it!
          [SIGPIC]
          12.268@117... 11's to come!
          turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
          ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MidnightriderZ24 View Post
            nice map for sure! gt's are steeply priced! holset it!
            Tru Dat!!
            14PSI with a x35 should be pretty promising and save you $$$$ ... But then again, you do get more out of spending a lot more money and time for power and efficiency.

            Be sure to post progress pics/vids!
            Lifting my front wheels, one jack at a time.

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            • #7
              I also looked at the map for the HX35.... not even close.
              It builds flow earlier but then farts out 6000 rpms. (seems pretty good for a 3400 though)

              Too bad. They're definitely cheaper.
              Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, John, it looks like you will have room to grow a little bit with the GT Look a little closer at your area right about the 2.2 pressure ratio. Might boost a little later, but you will only be on the second or third island at shift...
                Links:
                WOT-Tech.com
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                • #9
                  theres always a hx40, he351cw.
                  [SIGPIC]
                  12.268@117... 11's to come!
                  turbo 3400: 358whp and 365tq at 9 psi
                  ASE Master Technician. GM Certified.
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's 2 variations for the x35, 9cm and a 12cm right? Go bieggg.
                    Lifting my front wheels, one jack at a time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MidnightriderZ24 View Post
                      theres always a hx40, he351cw.
                      The HX40 is complete overkill. It surges something nasty untill 3700rpms on this motor. It simply isnt practicle for a street driven car. (Ill keep it in mind for turbocharging a v8 though)

                      The he351cw has an excellent surge limit. Boost kicks in nice and low under good efficiency (a bit of a better daily drivable turbo than the GT3582R actually) but chokes pretty badly past 600cfm (41.4lbs/min) at 12psi and 6000rpms. (Again, like the Holset HX35, an excellent turbo for the 3400 motor)

                      Originally posted by 1988GTU View Post
                      There's 2 variations for the x35, 9cm and a 12cm right? Go bieggg.
                      Holset HX35 maps are hard to find online. I wouldnt be able to tell you which is which from looking at the map since that info is never included. Besides, the GT35 is big enough. Ill leave the "ubber turbos" to the dyno queens. I prefer drivability.
                      Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
                        Actually, John, it looks like you will have room to grow a little bit with the GT Look a little closer at your area right about the 2.2 pressure ratio. Might boost a little later, but you will only be on the second or third island at shift...
                        You know, I havent really taken the time to perform the air-flow calculations at 2.2 P.R. I think Ill spend some time doing the calculations and re-chart the map for "shits and giggles".
                        Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Driver_10 View Post
                          No lag, no choking. Just a good flat air delivery profile to match powerband of the cam perfectly.
                          What Cam profiles are you using?

                          -=ЯoB=- 3400 3spd Z24 ---167Hp, 193Ft-Lbs @ the wheels
                          14.99@91.33mph

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                          • #14
                            It is the "WOT-TECH" 3400 stage III grind. It carries the Scoggin-Dickie's grind# chev6 3051/3766. Its not as high-rpm as the stage II but delivers better overal power and seems to be a bit more streetable.

                            The powercurve is pretty flat and makes power well into 6500rpms. Ill be shifting at 7200rpms which will allow the following gear to be in the optimal power-range.
                            Took a break from working on the car. Got some better tools, got a better shop, got a better job... Its time to burn metal!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              check out the map on a 60-1
                              #1 1989 RS - THE L98 AND LT1/LS1 KILLER
                              1LE SUSPENSION AND BRAKE SWAP,3.1L V6 8.5-1 CR, LIGHTENED CRANK,KB COATED PISTONS, CUSTOM 268/272 DUR CAM, CNC'ED HEADS, PORTED INTAKE,CUSTOM TURBO KIT W/ 67MM TURBO(AKA TO4R/Z) 28 PSI, TCI STREETFIGHTER 700R4 W/ TCI 4,500 STALL,ALL RUN BY A MEGASQUIRT ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM

                              #2 95 granprix 3100 all stock for now
                              ported heads and cam comming soon, megasquirt ems and turbo down the road

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