Anyone else notice this???

[TurboProject]

So where did the stigma of using roller lifters in a gen 1 block get started? I do believe I called comp or crane maybe 8 years ago on the subject and they told me I'd be replacing burned lifters in less than 10k miles. Someone else had heard the same thing.

[85maro]

I'm talking about the channels in the lifter valley that direct oil drainback forcedfirebird. Not the reinforcing stuff (those 2 big 'walls') going across the lifter valley.

Moot point? If you don't want to discuss it you don't have to...

[TurboProject]

Have you really seen published info somewhere that says that gravity drain-back from the rockers, etc is where the pressure surfaces of the lifter and cam lobe surfaces get their primary means of lubrication? In any engine? I just don't see how that could be relied upon...maybe in my Briggs-n-Stratton...

[bszopi]

GM has had it this way for... 18+yrs? If it was as big of an issue as you are trying to make it out to be, the design would have changed by now. I know GM has done some stupid stuff in the past, but it has caused issues which everyone knows about. You bringing this up is the first I have ever even seen anyone thinking its an issue.

[85maro]

Tappet face lubrication is entirely secondary (i.e. drainback, not pressurized) on most every motor ever produced. That's a known fact since... well motors have been produced.

bszopi- I'm talking about 1st gen blocks, forget the 2nd gen crap and everything that was designed for alum heads.

1st gen motors were designed around different heads & oil return. I believe there's an issue with 1st gen blocks & hybrid swaps. Maybe not IDK. I haven't tried to test it out (nor do I want to ). But I have heard of more than a couple tappet issues with 1st gen motors that have done hybrid swaps and I think this may be the source.

Is there oil seepage from the lifter bore, pushrods, rockers ect. that will contribute to tappet face oiling? Sure, but it's not that significant. The VAST majority of oil luricating the tappet face is drainback.

[SappySE107]

How about you forget the 1st gen crap and buy a gen 3 since you think this is such a big deal?

[TurboProject]

Wouldn't an easy way to test this be to put a long block together on an engine stand with the lower intake and valve covers off and then spin up the oil pump drive with a drill and see where it flows? Obviously there'd be a lot of sling if the motor was actualy moving. You could rig up a starter to turn a flexplate with a push button if you wanted to get some dynamic idea of what's going on...though it'll probably get a bit messy.

[geoffinbc]

Ok here is a 1990 GenII lifter valley for comparison

And here is a Gen I Iron head motor.


I see no difference other than the extra reinforcement.

[Weston19]

Tappet face lubrication is entirely secondary (i.e. drainback, not pressurized) on most every motor ever produced. That's a known fact since... well motors have been produced.

bszopi- I'm talking about 1st gen blocks, forget the 2nd gen crap and everything that was designed for alum heads.

1st gen motors were designed around different heads & oil return. I believe there's an issue with 1st gen blocks & hybrid swaps. Maybe not IDK. I haven't tried to test it out (nor do I want to ). But I have heard of more than a couple tappet issues with 1st gen motors that have done hybrid swaps and I think this may be the source.

Is there oil seepage from the lifter bore, pushrods, rockers ect. that will contribute to tappet face oiling? Sure, but it's not that significant. The VAST majority of oil luricating the tappet face is drainback.

This problem was dealt with in the 50's when they started using high lift cams on normally stock motors. The oiling of the cam is neccesary in the sense it needs oil to be lubricated, but they used zinc and phosphorous to form a lubrication on the face of the lifter and cam without the need for the inconsistancy of an oiling system that was normally designed for low lift/low output motors. If you have a tappet and do not use an oil fortified with zinc and phosphorus you are trusting the splash oiling of the motor which is again un-reliable. The system didnt need to be perfect, the zinc/phosphorous mixture created the ever so important lubrication between the cam and the lifter. The fact that the oil is splash or drainback is ill-relevent. Use the right oil, and never worry about excessive wear on your cam. And if you buy it off the shelf at local retailers, its not fortified or even designed for tappet cars. The industry has put tappets in the past and doesnt care about the thousands of people they are costing cam lobes a year. Comp Cams wont even warrenty your cam if you dont use said oil.

[Guest]

As someone who has ran genIII heads on a gen1 RWD block, I can safely say...

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I ran my Franken60 for over 20000 kms, and when I pulled it apart (upgrade/part out), the cam still looked new, infact I sold it to someone else that as far as I know is still running it. This was several years ago, and unfortunatly my project has stalled, due to other things in life coming up.

[pocket-rocket]

This thread has a little facepalm gallery if you want to use them, lol.

http://60degreev6.com/forum/f103/adj-vacuum-modulator-4t60e-t44265

[Raffaelli]

If you have a tappet and do not use an oil fortified with zinc and phosphorus you are trusting the splash oiling of the motor which is again un-reliable. The industry...... has put tappets in the past and doesnt care about the thousands of people they are costing cam lobes a year. Comp Cams wont even warrenty your cam if you dont use said oil.

I can personally vouch for this. The metal lubricants in the OIL keep the flat tappet cams alive. Zinc/phosphorus.

I put a cam in a 396 ElCamino SS. Flattened the cam in 30 minutes, on mobile 1. Shelled the engine and had to be rebuilt.

GM E.O.S. (over the shelf additive) or Diesel truck Oil like Shell Rotella T. And yes, the cam companies will tell you to suck it...

[pocket-rocket]

I don't see how they can do that legally unless they specify in their documentation with the cam about this happening if you use the wrong kind of oil, or no additives.

[robertisaar]

I don't see how they can do that legally unless they specify in their documentation with the cam about this happening if you use the wrong kind of oil, or no additives.

it probably is mentioned, people usually ignore that type of thing though...

[pocket-rocket]

Very true. After all, real men don't use installation instructions, lol.