high RPM 3500?

[cooguyfish]

I am planning on building a 3500 for my fiero and want to turn some RPM's

here are my goals
- mid to high 12's around 110
- reliable enough to DD (it won't be but I will drive it alot)

I am open to turbo'ing, but it just seems easier to get to were I want N/A (not to mention cheaper)

so far here is the plan;
I am going to run the 7730 ECM
Fiero Isuzu 5 spd, but, I am going to swap in a cavalier FDR (I've read they have 3.58's, 3.94's, and 4.12's vs. the stock fiero 3.35)
the guy I am buying the engine off of is installing some LS1 springs he has for it.

First, I don't know what the stock redline is, I do know it's an 06 malibu engine. I think I've found that the stock redline is either 6K or 6.4K?

If I go with the 4.12's, or the 3.94's, I will really need to be running at least 7K, if not 7500.

7500 puts me at these speeds with the 4.12 FDR
1 35
2 60
3 90
4 125
5 175

7000 with 3.94's (if 7500 is to much work and or unreliable)
1 34
2 58
3 87
4 123
5 171

one last thing, my calculations tell me with a 4.12 FDR, I should be able to hit my goal with approximately 260 HP, I may not even need that much.

[IsaacHayes]

Turbo would be cheaper to get that goal. I'm not sure how much a Fiero weighs but you'll need headers a cam and porting most likely. And better springs with all that.

Is the isuzu strong enough and will it shift at those RPMs? Or is that exceeding it's RPM limit?

[cooguyfish]

I don't actually know how many RPM's the trans can handle. I'm sure 7500 is not out of the question.

an 88 GT fiero with an auto (the heaviest fiero out there) weighs around 2850 +/- 50 lbs

I'm hoping to get mine to between 2500-2700.

The only thing I have against turbo is price, complexity, lack of location for an intercooler, and I am only shooting for 250-275 crank HP.

Don't get me wrong I love turbo's, I had a saturn SL2 that I turbo'd and running 4 PSI (approx 165 HP) I ran 14.47 @ 99 with a 2.41 60' time.

basically, I am trying to build something that is faster than that, that can actually hook up off the line. I think that power, and tranny in a fiero and I would have been running 13.50-13.65's (maybe not that much but still quite a bit faster)

[Superdave]

A 3500 with a moderate cam, headers and tuning will do 275 crank HP easy. I'm at 320 with a pretty big cam, headers and porting.

The rods hold up to 7K RPM, i haven't pushed mine further... yet

[cooguyfish]

A 3500 with a moderate cam, headers and tuning will do 275 crank HP easy. I'm at 320 with a pretty big cam, headers and porting.

The rods hold up to 7K RPM, i haven't pushed mine further... yet

where do you kids get headers at, I thought I read on the fiero forum that merlot used modified trueleo headers on his 3500 but is there something built specifically for the 3500?

and if I can just change out the cam, headers and tuning, and get to 7K and 275 HP then I will probably settle there.

Do you have any porting done to the heads/ intake? is there a better intake to use? like say the intake from a 3900?

[cooguyfish]

O, and how about shaving the heads for a little more compression? that was a fairly popular thing to do in the saturn world.

Would balancing the rotating assembly get me any more RPM?

thanks for the input so far BTW.

[Superdave]

Kids? LOL


I designed/built my headers, but if you can get a set like merlot used that fit your engine bay then i'd go that route. The 3900 is a gen4 engine, the ports are different than the gen3 3500 and the UIM would be a pain in the ass to get working since it's got the variable intake runner setup.

Yes, my UIM/LIM are port matched and i have some healthy porting done to the heads. The 3500 heads flow great out of the box so not much if any is needed for good results.

The 3500 is 9.8:1 stock, i wouldn't shave the heads. Balancing the bottom end is a good idea but it's not really needed for what you are planning. It runs very smooth with the larger rod mains and forged steel crank.

[cooguyfish]

well how about this scenario, you've made it clear I can hit my goal of 275 HP and 7k, what would it take to get the extra 500 RPM redline, or does it get much harder from there?

also, if I do the cam, headers, and tuning and hit the 275, how much torque does that translate too roughly? and where approximately are the peak RPM's?

BTW The kids comment is just something I do for fun. I even call my parents kids sometimes when I address them, and people think it is either very strange or funny. I also have a habit of telling people my dad looks like me and not the other way around. I have a strange sense of humor

-Brandon

[cooguyfish]

one last thought, since you metnioned that the 3900 is a gen four engine, would it be possible to just use the heads/intake off the 3900 and put it on a 3500?

[IsaacHayes]

Nope, gen4 is too different. The 3500 we are using is the LX9. There is a gen 4 3500 which has the same top end as the 3900 minus the varible upper intake, and is destroked.

[PCGUY112887]

Wouldn't an 06 3500 be VVT?

[IsaacHayes]

Depends on the vehicle. IIRC there were LX9 in 07 even....

[WrathOfSocrus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

The 3500 I picked up was an '06 G6. Minivans like the Uplander got the 3900 option in 2006 with the base as the LX9 before going to the 3900 as the base engine the next year.

[IsaacHayes]

I think in 07 the Rendezvous had the LX9.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/buick/rendezvous/index.html

2007 Buick Rendezvous Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
3,498 cc 3.5 liters V 6 front engine with 94 mm bore, 84 mm stroke, 9.8 compression ratio, overhead valve and two valves per cylinder LX9