New member looking for advice on 3.4L/3500 hybrid.

[TechRod]

Warning! ***LONG POST***

I just joined the site but I have been lurking on here for quite awhile and putting together a parts list for my 94 Camaro L32/3500 hybrid project, in my 2-door 1980 Chevette Scooter). It's a low-mileage, low-rust, garaged car that I took a Greyhound bus from Toledo to St. Louis to buy the car sight unseen and drove it back without a problem. I was very pleased with the condition and I paid $550 for the car in "daily driver" condition, the whole trip cost me about $750. Money well spent I say! Since then I have performed a full Car PC install with all the goodies. I put a 15" touchscreen LCD in the dash and notched (and reinforced) a hole in the back seat subframe to clear a modified MicroATX PC case with the seat foam modified to hide the PC completely. Everything else has been hidden under the new carpet kit. Since I had everything apart I decided to install power windows, locks, hatch release, alarm, 92 Cavalier steering wheel, 95 Sunfire buckets, modified 04 S-10 center console, 03 Grand-Am overhead console, 06 Cobalt wheels with 205/40-16's, and uncounted brake upgrades because Chevettes don't stop very well. Not to mention all the stuff I forgot, but this post is already getting long
And I haven't even started on body and paint, but I think that covers most of the background for now.

Now for the thread topic...

Most of this info has been covered before and I have read and re-read all of the relevant posts here and on other reputable 60 degree sites in order to avoid the typical "newbie first post". I am a former "mechanic" (read: parts changer for Firestone) years ago, and am now a PC tech by trade so I am familiar with many mechanical and electronic aspects of my build and I use Google as the research tool it was meant to be so please assuade any fears that I may be over my head or shooting from the hip. This is not my only vehicle and I am not working with a severely neutered budget (but I'm not rich either) nor am I operating under the false impression that I'll be the fastest thing on four wheels. I have performed a number of engine swaps in my day, all RWD and all carb'd. This is my first foray into fuel injection so I have been pouring over posts on many sites going back several years and have obtained EXCELLENT info from others pioneering the forefront of these swaps. Please consider the following build plan and please keep helpful, constructive criticism coming friends!

Here goes...

* Engine Donor - 1994 Camaro 3.4L L32 “S-code” engine and 4L60-E Transmission (with engine/frame mounts, the ENTIRE wiring harness and ALL associated electronics, lights, and switches, even the dash cluster!)
* Upper intake manifold - 2000+ 3400 upper intake manifold – large bore, and I'll make EGR block-off parts
3500 (LX9, non VVT) Complete upper end - minus throttle body. Complete cyl. heads w/ valve covers, upper intake, lower intake, injector blue O rings, and attached sensors w/ pigtails (maybe 2 front 3500 exhaust manifolds depending on space restrictions, or custom headers) from…
• 2004-2006 Chevrolet Malibu/Chevrolet Malibu Maxx
• 2005-2006 Pontiac G6
Gaskets – all for 3500 I think, more research required, input welcome
Cam – Have reground for the 11.5:1 compression (for 87 octane in street car)
Pushrods – custom length, more research required, input welcome
Lifters - ??? , more research required, input welcome
Throttle Body - 65 mm 3.5L Olds Intrigue/Aurora Throttle Body (with adapter from WOT-TECH store)
Injectors - from a 3.4 DOHC, #24 @ 43.5 PSI.
Fuel Rail - pre-1999 3100/3400
Fuel Lines – select from most appropriate 3100/3400 powered body-style, modify if necessary.
Fuel pump - for a 1991 TPI 350 Camaro (modified for my tank)
CPS - external 7x setup from 60degreev6.com store (is this necessary with Megasquirt?)
Megasquirt II Engine Management - controlling fuel and spark, hooked to the Car PC and running piggyback with OEM system transplanted from donor Camaro to handle transmission and extras.

* = Already have it!

Sorry about the strange format, I actually typed the preceeding list up to take around to local machine shops to get advice.

[923.4v6]

You don't need an external crank sensor you can use the one that the 3.4 has in the block. I would just get a 7730 ecm and wiring harness with a ostrich hooked up for real time tuning. But I don't know much about the piggy back with the obd1.5 harness.

[TechRod]

Awesome, my first reply!
Thanks for the crank trigger tip 923.4v6,
I had considered changing from OBD1.5 (yuck) to either OBD1 (possible in this scenario?) or OBD2 (what car tho?), but what would the advantage of Ostrich be over MegaSquirt? I've found posts stating that MegaSquirt can control my 4L60E but that I would need one for the engine and one for the tranny then. Not cool. I would much rather obtain as many parts from factory vehicles in my local salvage yards. Sure, some things you can only get aftermarket, or done at a machine shop, but I take a special pride in building a "cool mutt" or in this case a hybrid engine if you like.
So if stripping the wiring harness, ECM, sensors, and related electronics from a particular vehicle is the asnwer, I'm on it like a fat kid on cake!
If anyone has suggestions for the right donor vehicle to look for, I'm all ears!

P.S. Is my sig showing up right???

[923.4v6]

the 94-95 chevy full size trucks, s10's and vans use 16156930 16197427 16196395 ecm's with 0d and also uses a memcal like the 7730, and they control the 4l60E transmission's. The ostrich would make a factory wiring harness do the same things as the Mega Squirt will do. If you have to buy 2 of them I'd probably check into tuning using 0d with the ostrich, if you can get a cheap factory harness.

[IsaacHayes]

Sweeeeeeeet!!! Finally someone is putting a built modern 60* in a chevette!!! Basically you have what I would build for my beretta (except I'd use a fwd block and swap in the rwd pistons cause that block fits my car better).

Why not use the 3500 UIM? BTW the LX5 TB adapter in the WOT store has holes for a 3400 UIM too.

Megasquirt for tuning, right on. Piggy back to use the auto, should work, I plan to do the same one day. Make sure the stock ECM gets the CTS, and MAP sensors still, as it basis it's shifting off load and won't lock the converter if it sees the coolant is too cold.

http://www.turbocamaroproject.com/megasquirt/Overview.html

That will help with wiring up the MS. My FWD 3100 ECM has the same pin-outs so that guide helps me too!

Since you have the electronic auto you'll have to stick with the stock ECM and piggy back or figure out if a OBDII 3800 ECM would work and tune with DHP... I don't know if there is an OBD1 7730 bin out there for the 4L60-e... 93 would be the year to check for that... not sure what auto trans they had in 93.



Lifters can be modded with LT1 springs. Superdave posted some info once on that. But stock should be ok.

Crank trigger not needed with megasquirt, the 3.4 RWD has the old 7x reluctor in the crank which is fine.

Should be fast and get traction well being RWD. Please post pics of your progress! I don't think there are any thicker headgaskets than the 3500/3400 ones. Don't use the iron head gaskets of course.

[TechRod]

923.4v6, I'll be researching more into your suggestions in order to be more knowledgeable. At this point I haven't spent enough time looking into Ostrich to intelligently comment yet.
Thanks for the encouraging words and tips IsaacHayes!
I'm beginning to realise that I not only chose just the right car for my project, but the right drivetrain as well.
That's true on so many levels, the Chevette is one of the most unsuspecting RWD Chevy(my preference) and the 60* V6 is very buildable/tunable. But also, I get the best of both worlds because both the Chevette forums and the 60* V6 forums are the most helpful, understanding folk I've run into on automotove forums yet!
I wish I could take credit for any of this but all of these ideas I've just gathered from a bunch of forums and put together with a LOT of pre-planning, and a LOT of my own work, sweat, blood, and grey hair! When I pulled the interior out of CompuScooter and installed all the CarPC components and pwr windows/locks/hatch/alarm/carpet kit, I turned my phone off for 6 days straight and worked on the car 9am - 11pm each day until it was done. No, no OCD here.
Anyway there's a fellow running a hybrid 3.4 with twin turbos in a Chevette and getting ridiculously low times at the track (saw it on youtube). His video of him flying down the track in that thing lit a fire under me!
***Awesome ride dude, whoever you are!***
I guess the only reason for the 3400 UIM is because I had one given to me by a friend the other day when I was telling him about this build project, he just happened to have it from a swap he did on a 2000 Venture. If the 3500 UIM flows better (or has the capability to) I could definitely grab it when I get the rest of the parts from the 04 -06 Malibu/G6. I get along good with my salvage yards... I know where to make friends
Good reminder for the ECM using CTS and MAP senders to control the shifts.
Oh, and I'll be researching Superdave's LT1 lifter mod here in just a moment too.
As for the traction I'm swapping to parallel-leaf suspension in the rear with S-10 Posi with disc brakes, shortened driveshaft, airshocks, and traction bars. It's a little old-scool but it'll take a thrashin and still go straight too.
Thanks again!

[ForcedFirebird]

I'm using a '7730 ECM and it will control DIS, but not the e trans.

I made the TB adapters for the 3.5 DOHC tb's and are available here on the WOT-TECH store (thanks to Isaac's idea ), and yes they fit either the 3500 or 3400 upper manifold. The latest version even has an oring on the manifold side so just a single stock 3.5 TB gasket can be used, but the orings won't work on 3400 upper because of the IAC "slot".

To use the RWD pistons and 3500 heads, you will really need to get a cam with a late intake valve closing event. Not too long ago someone I hepled with his 3.4/3500 didn't heed my advice about using a cam that was too small. He went with a Comp 262, and was detonating and had some extreme cranking pressures. With the 272 grind (modified a bit) he's in the 230psi range cranking and is running on pump gas.

Isaac, RWD gaskets are ideal if using the RWD pitons since they only come .01" or so out of the block, but will raise the compression significantly. I used the less-ideal quench of .050" and took advantage of the larger piston bore in the 3500 gaskets - and they came in the set from GM anyways


The guy with the low times, isn't he a memeber here and posts occasionally? Was he in the 10's?

[TechRod]

Here's the fella's video showing his 12 second Chevette with a hybrid 60* twin turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcNMqABi1YE&feature=related

His youtube handle is chevetteboy and you should see his other videos of the car as well.
Sounds like the 3500 UIM and TB adapter from the WOT-TECH store is definitely the way to go if for ease of fitment alone.
I couldn't agree more that the cam specs will be critical to making this combination useful and streetable. Any more info or specs would be greatly appreciated, this is one of those things that research and experience save the day!

[TechRod]

I'm trying to source the correct oil pan for my engine/chassis combo. From the info I have found I will need an S10/S15/Blazer/Jimmy 2.8 4x4 oil pan and pickup to clear the Chevette rack and pinion, but from what year? I guess the I'm just looking for someone to confirm that my 1994 Camaro 3.4L needs the 1988 and up design pan only, or am I way off base?
Thanks again!

[ForcedFirebird]

http://60degreev6.com/forum/f96/4-bolt-mains-t40048

[TechRod]

Thanks ForcedFirebird, that's the guy!
As for the oil pan I crossed my fingers and ordered one for a 1988, wish me luck

[TechRod]

I'm still getting used to the idea of keeping track of my projects and also to the idea that I always have a camera (phone) on me. But I recently posted a video on youtube showing CompuScooter last spring right after the computer install.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuAxpqfKAA

You can see in the video that the car is in relatively decent shape.
I just thought in case anybody was interested.

[TechRod]

Wow, I haven't posted in over a year!
The project is still rolling along. I have since found an even cleaner 1981 Chevette and have been transferring everything from the old car.
My hybrid top-end swap is temporarily on hold until I can afford Megasquirt and a TCI trans controller (about $1200 all told).
Until then I am wiring up the OBD 1.5 setup from the Camaro so that I can drive the car while saving up money.
I have finally gotten to the wiring portion of the build and require some advice.
I have the wiring diagrams for the Chevette and the Camaro that the engine and trans came from, and I've been studying them.
I won't be using the A/C, power steering, air pump, ABS, or airbags because the Chevette doesn't have any of those things.
I would like to know what wiring can be removed from the harness without causing problems?
I'm trying to avoid causing error codes or throwing it into "limp home mode".
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[60dgrzbelow0]

I'm trying to source the correct oil pan for my engine/chassis combo. From the info I have found I will need an S10/S15/Blazer/Jimmy 2.8 4x4 oil pan and pickup to clear the Chevette rack and pinion, but from what year? I guess the I'm just looking for someone to confirm that my 1994 Camaro 3.4L needs the 1988 and up design pan only, or am I way off base?
Thanks again!

If you have not solved this issue yet...and without knowing how the motor snugs up inside the engine compartment... While looking into the proper pan configuration, keep in mind that the Timing Chain Cover and Oil Pan in the GM 93-95 VIN "S" are essentially flush behind the harmonic balancer, whereas the early model 2.8L- 3.1L truck configurations jut forward and you will need to know the coolant flow setp up as possibly being normal as opposed to being "Reverse Flow" as in the GM V6 L-32 Design. The best person to consult with as to how to properly do this with S-10 components is Geoff Moore (betterthanyou), a senior person on this forum. If anyone knows what parts, pieces, changes and things to look out for... He is the man to know it.

[60dgrzbelow0]

I'm still getting used to the idea of keeping track of my projects and also to the idea that I always have a camera (phone) on me. But I recently posted a video on youtube showing CompuScooter last spring right after the computer install.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuAxpqfKAA

You can see in the video that the car is in relatively decent shape.
I just thought in case anybody was interested.

Your best bet for posting digital photos and videos is to use www.photobucket.com . You can set up a free account, bulk upload your images and vids to your own site and then just drop the link from whichever album you want us to view in your follow up postings. The members you seek help from in here will greatly appreciate seeing your work (and problems) memorialized for their perusal and help you obtain the best advice as well.

Here is a link to my own Photo-Bucket that you can browse for additional information about a wide range of GM V6 subjects that include the complete tear down and on going images of the complete re-build of the 1993-1995 GM L-32 V6 3.4L 207 (some say 204) C.I.D. engine, which includes a wide array of new part images, part numbers, specialty tools, fuel injection cleaning and component install imagery, as well.

http://s557.photobucket.com/home/60dgrzbelow0/allalbums