wot store, stage 2 3400 cam

[shawn3091]

does anyone have a soundclip or video of a car with the stage 2 cam in their 3400? and what lsa it has.

[PCGUY112887]

It's not a 3400 it's my 3500 but it has the 3400 stage 2 cam in it. It should sound very similar. Mods are in my signature. In this video I didn't have a resonator (I have no cat either) but now I have an 18" resonator and at idle it's just a bit more quiet but it removed a lot of that rasp at 1:00 in the video (3k RPM)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=3500+grand+prix&emb=0&aq=f#

Stage 2 is the 1393 grind here...

http://wot-tech.com/shop/images/Cam/CamSpecs.htm

[shawn3091]

ben said if i want my 3400 to have a lopey idle with this cam i could get it with a 106 or 108 lsa, what would be disadvantages of this and how much would it affect the powerband of the cam?

[geldartb]

In a nutshell...

Decreasing lobe seperation:
1. narrows the powerband
2. moves the powerband lower
3. makes the idle choppier
4. makes more power
5. pumps up the midrange

Increasing lobe seperation
1. widens powerband
2. makes the idle smoother
3. takes away from the midrange
4. produces less maximum power

Small engines with big ports LOVE tight lobe seperations, large engines with small ports work better with wider angles between the lobes.

A tighter lobe seperation also allows you to use a slightly larger cam in a lower rpm range. If you want maximum valve timing without revving the engine to the moon, a tighter lobe seperation can make it happen.

[shawn3091]

how big of a difference is there between a 108 and 106, this cam has a powerband of 2000-6000rpm, what would it be with 108 or 106? and the car will be driven alot, would it cause a problem, and how tunable would it be?

[Superdave]

you should never buy a cam based on how it'll sound at idle, But keep in mind the more overlap you have, the less idle vacuum and the harder it will be to tune.

Overlap is the time when both valves are open at the same time, measured in degrees. For a daily driven car i wouldn't go over 50-55 degrees of overlap. It'll still make tons of power and be easier to drive around town.

the Stage 2 N/A has 40 degrees with a 110 LSA, 44 degrees with a 108 LSA and 48 degrees on a 106 LSA. A very streetable cam.

We put grind number 1617 into Damon's 3400 sunbird and he drives it daily with 50 degrees of overlap. It made like 224 WHP with a ported top end and this cam. Personally i think it's a better cam than the stage 2 N/A. It makes great power through the RPM's and has a nice idle sound as well.

For referance, mine has over 70 degrees of overlap. Below 2K RPM in gear and it bucks like crazy so you gotta drive around town in 3rd instead of shifting to 4th which kills gas mileage and attracts the wrong attention. Not a daily driver at all.

[shawn3091]

i looked at the 1617 dynamation table and compared with the stage 2 1393 and it does look good, does he have any videos of his z?

[Superdave]

I think so, i'll look around for them.

[shawn3091]

i found some of his videos on you tube, when i do this i will probably get that cam, a ported 3500 uim, 65mm tb, do some p&p on the heads, and possibly get headers.

[Alxsmt]

i have the 1393, great idle quality and you would never know it had a cam by that. it really comes alive after 4k but not like a spike. overall power is good throughout the whole rpm range

this is the closest thing to a sound clip i have.. everything in my sig.. running rich

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=43861918

[ZeeTwentyFour]

you should never buy a cam based on how it'll sound at idle, But keep in mind the more overlap you have, the less idle vacuum and the harder it will be to tune.

Overlap is the time when both valves are open at the same time, measured in degrees. For a daily driven car i wouldn't go over 50-55 degrees of overlap. It'll still make tons of power and be easier to drive around town.

the Stage 2 N/A has 40 degrees with a 110 LSA, 44 degrees with a 108 LSA and 48 degrees on a 106 LSA. A very streetable cam.

We put grind number 1617 into Damon's 3400 sunbird and he drives it daily with 50 degrees of overlap. It made like 224 WHP with a ported top end and this cam. Personally i think it's a better cam than the stage 2 N/A. It makes great power through the RPM's and has a nice idle sound as well.

For referance, mine has over 70 degrees of overlap. Below 2K RPM in gear and it bucks like crazy so you gotta drive around town in 3rd instead of shifting to 4th which kills gas mileage and attracts the wrong attention. Not a daily driver at all.

I was looking at the 1617 grind, it looks pretty good for a lower end grind compared to the 1393. The simulation it's running is with a 111 LSA, would bringing that down like you said to around 106 lower the power band even more? I'm also wondering if Ben has the calculations done for the street ported 3500 top end and this grind?

[SappySE107]

Sorta. I am on a new version and method compared to the numbers I have on the cam pages. Those are good to get an idea of what the cams do but for me to add more, I would need to start over. I didn't save all those setups to easily open them back up and run them again.

Making the 1617 a 108 lsa vs 111 doesn't do a heck of a lot. You have to change the ICL and the LSA to see bigger differences, and at that, I am content with how i have them. Everyone wants something special and unique, and while I try my best to accomodate, there are too many people and too many ideas for me to address them all. As Dave said, a lope is fine but making a cam for lope on stock compression isn't the same as asking for the best performance for your application. Lope = not efficient at idle and that about sums it up. The idea being that you are bleeding off compression at idle to have more efficiency at higher RPM.

[ZeeTwentyFour]

Ive been emailing you with a bunch of questions, I figure I'll post this one here as it might help others. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind doing simulations for the Stock 3400 with Street Ported 3500 Top End (65mm billet TB) and 1161, 1592, and 1319 grinds.

[SappySE107]

Well this really makes me want to redo all the simulations on the site to follow the new hybrid model and version 5 software.

Street Ported 3500 Top End on a Stock 3400 With 65mm TB

Cam
RPM Stock 1617 1161 1592 1319
2000 087 083 085 080 076
2500 112 108 110 103 099
3000 141 139 141 131 128
3500 165 168 168 157 156
4000 186 193 192 182 181
4500 204 214 211 203 201
5000 219 229 225 218 220
5500 212 239 235 224 238
6000 199 231 226 247 231
6500 184 219 213 235 218
7000 159 196 190 213 199

[shawn3091]

how high can a 3400 with a stock bottom end be reved to safely?