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  • Max Power......

    I havent seen or herd of what the full potential of the 60* V6 can make. Alot of bench racing goes on all the time about basic bolt-ons and so on and so forth but I'm wondering if there is a site or even anyone here that has actually put one of these engines on a engine dyno and pushed till parts started breaking. Kinda like what GM Racing did with the ecotec racing program?? It'd be interesting to see what combo works and what doesnt, and where the weak link is and what to do to fix it. No thoughts or ideas, just solid facts.....

    With that said, if this hasnt been done before, it might by years end. I've got one spare engine hanging around that I dont know what to do with. Me and a good friend want to put this engine on the bottle and see where it will go. I think it'd be safe to swap to some Speed Pro pistons, the least anyone should do before really going all out with these engines. If and when anything breaks, it will be replaced with either the most available parts or most affordable parts. Whichever comes first. Basically, a bugget'd full on motor guide. Dyno time will probably outweigh cost of building this engine, but this will be done. I think the Nitrous idea is the easiest to start with, then afterwards will be a turbo set-up. All this will be run on a factory ECM with a MSD Dis-4 to help with the ignition. Cam ideas are going to be welcomed and will end off with a full port-polished set of heads with larger valves. Advancing and retarding the cam will show the benifits.

    I plan on starting on the block in a month or so. I've got a set of pistons in a .030 over that will hold the 9.5:1 compression. This block will not be O'ring'd or have any coated bearings or piston tops. Just the way they come. If for some reason there is significant damage to the block during any of the test, and is not repairable, the test will end. If anyone would like to donate their time or any spare money, you can send me a PM and we can further talk about what help is needed. If you have any ideas as to what some or most people have done or are doing, besides turbo/supercharger that you think should be included in any of these test, let me know. I can tell you this, cam ideas are going to come in, I can see it now. If you have any spare cam's, roller cams only, these can be donated also. The ECM and block are from my 95 GAGT. If a cam from a 2000 model has just a different cam sensor, will they work?

    I will have more details in a month or so when we get started on the bottom end. First will be an all motor/base line run to get some numbers, then a direct port N2O set-up, then a turbo set-up. No supercharger...
    Any comments are welcome along with ideas.....

    Bryan

  • #2
    Id like to see what different head setups would do. Bigger chambers, valves, etc.

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    • #3
      With forced induction I would say the engine is capable of at least 500hp...if you can keep the block together. I'm thinking 8.0 or 8.5:1 compression pistons and a Centrifigal Supercharger running like 19-22psi boost, a nice cam, nice heads, headers and a good flowing exhaust. With the right parts and tuning its capable of a lot. Especially with the semi-short stroke that the 660's have, you could easily put a big cam in it and rev it to like 7000+rpms to make some power with a Centrifigul blower.

      I am hoping to have a very streetable ~300hp 3.1 in about a year or so. Just my stock 3.1 Turbo block with a mild cam, roller rockers, bigger turbo, 3100 topend, ported exhaust manifolds and a few other little things. 300hp should be pretty easy to get out of these engines, but once you get to the 400 mark or so it will start taking some major work, but I'm sure 600hp could be reached with a nice setup. I just don't know how strong the 660 blocks are...I am thinking someones gonna find out soon though.

      Shawn
      90 Grand Prix STE 3.1 Intercooled Turbo-3100 Hybrid
      K&N, Magnaflows, No Cat, Chip, FFP Pulley, H260 Cam, No EGR.
      99 Grand Prix GT
      K&N|No Cat/ubend/res|160 tstat|shift kit|UD ALT & WP Pulleys|XP Cam|Stage 2 I/C|Pacesetters|MPS|2.9"|Custom PCM
      12.665 @ 110.44 w/2.018 60', STREET TIRES, PUMP GAS!

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      • #4
        Thats the plan, finding out. I can tell you right now that the first run will be a N/A set-up running the stock cam, .030 over bore with total seal TSS ring sets, ARP rod bolts and a near factory spec heads to get some base line runs on it. The heads will be late 90's model since the 95's I have dont have the slot for the rocker arms, and the intake manifold will be the newer 2000 3100 for the increased flow potential. Basically all the parts will be off-shelf type you can get even at your local bone yard.

        The Plan:

        1) N/A numbers will be run against GM's numbers and will advance/retard the cam to see how much it affects power and where.

        2) start off with a 75hp direct port N2O set-up, then a 125hp, and if theres room and the engine seems happy, possible a 200hp shot..

        3) will swap to a fully ported/polished heads with larger valves, CNC port matched along with the LIM. Combustion chambers will be modified for more unshrouding and heads will be decked till we get back to the 28-30CC chambers and try out a cam I got with .540/.540 and 220/215 with a 112 and re-run the N/A then the N2O

        4) Turbo till something breaks.......

        I need some cams though. I got 2 total.........one as mentioned above and a factory cam....

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok heres my spill.I am about to get a 300HP N/A engine then add Nitrous to get about 450.As per Mev at Jbody performance this can and will hold just fine with the proper internal work.I plan on building an all forged engine so I can use nitrous with some reliability to it.Later on I am going to build a 600HP Blower engine.When you push the engines this far they are a ticking time bomb and will give up eventually no mater what you do.I believe the block will hold fine,its the crank and rods that will give first.19-22 Lbs is alot of boost no matter what engine you use,even if its a big block V8.When I build my blower engine it will be run around 12Lbs at the throttle body,maybe 14Lbs @ WOT and thats pushing it a bit.my ideas may or may not work.Will let you know as it happens.
          Rice is for eating, NOT for racing!!!!

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          • #6
            Yeah i almost believe the stuff you guys are saying. believe it when i see it!

            dbtk2 you will need a t04e 46-57 trim to reach 300 crank hp, and prolly some minor head work.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by z24turbo93
              dbtk2 you will need a t04e 46-57 trim to reach 300 crank hp, and prolly some minor head work.
              Well, thats what I've been told, but I believe it isn't really that hard to do. My car dyno'ed 182.2whp, which should be a little over 225 crank horsepower. (if you estimate 20% tranny loss thats 227.75hp) That is with ONLY a K&N filter on the turbo, a removed catalytic convertor (replaced w/straight pipe), and magnaflow mufflers. A TopGun 160 chip should add AT LEAST 30hp (it seemed to on my other TGP), probably closer to 40hp. Plus an underdrive crank pulley (an easy 5-10hp). So now, lets add this up...225+30+5=260hp. This is with the smallest gains I expect, I would think it would be more like 270-275hp. Then the cam I am looking at should give me a good 15-20hp. Hmmmm....that puts me at 275hp. Then ported exhaust manifolds, and the significantly better flowing 3100 topend (and the 3100 heads that I have have had a LITTLE work done to them)...if that isn't AT LEAST 10hp I would be amazed. Hmm..285hp. If a turbo upgrade can't get me another 15hp, I have some problems. I am also hoping to put in a fairly large front mount intercooler. And I am shooting for close to 300 horsepower which is why I put the ~ befor the 300 (290 or so is close enough for me!). So, 65hp over what I have now shouldn't be THAT tough!

              Now I know that adding up the power additions up for mods like that isn't very accurate at all, but you can see how it would SEEM like it is fairly easy to do. I know I will run into fueling problems and computer problems, but that is my goal, and I don't think it would be THAT difficult. Probably more difficult that I think, but I think it can be done with a little less work than you think.

              Just my opinion though.

              Shawn
              90 Grand Prix STE 3.1 Intercooled Turbo-3100 Hybrid
              K&N, Magnaflows, No Cat, Chip, FFP Pulley, H260 Cam, No EGR.
              99 Grand Prix GT
              K&N|No Cat/ubend/res|160 tstat|shift kit|UD ALT & WP Pulleys|XP Cam|Stage 2 I/C|Pacesetters|MPS|2.9"|Custom PCM
              12.665 @ 110.44 w/2.018 60', STREET TIRES, PUMP GAS!

              Comment

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