Finally finished

[gectek]

i did not mean that part in the gm manual. i was talking about people saying the truck coils will give you more HP. that part is. i believe there is a reason he specified the truck coils instead of just saying LS coils. and like i said if you believe that you need that much, then why not switch to the 10 plus box. it IS boosted. gm doesnt make an engine that is meant for this much boost from the factory. plus they dont make the multiple CD coils/system stock, but everyone claims there are gains from it too. a waste spark will never be the same amount because it is reversed in polarity. thats just how it is. i have measured the systems, there is not much of a difference, and they have somewhat of a cool down period too because the reverse polarity is not as intense of a wave, making less output, and not causing the coil to heat up as much on the secondary winding of the coil side that producing the waste spark. if the gm system could not be improved upon, msd would not be in business, nor would accell, holley, or any of the others.

there is no taking a chance with gm, but you are putting alot of faith in them on something that was def not their idea. honestly the gm system has been tested on the LS engines to well at 1000 HP, but that is not uncommon for the LS engines really. after that, you have to go to better stuff. still using the theory behind it per se, but then again, i highly doubt it was gms idea in teh first place.

i highly doubt that it takes anything away due to the 2 poles of the coil. if they branched off a single terminal i could see that, but they are not related on the secondary side. they both should produce the same voltage if the same length of wire is used because it is only the weakness of the primary voltage or the weakness of the individual secondary coil on that single terminal that will change the output. they are all the same on the output though.

i can say as i have personally seen this with a DSO. I had the secondary coil on half of the coil going bad. it was the 3-6 coil. cyl 6 was up at 30k or so with no problems. the 3 pole was at the same height almost all of the time, but it did show glitches in the field collapsing and the end lead to the dwell time. they all produced the same across the board. the only reason i could tell what was wrong was the DSO. Otherwise it would have gotten worse and i would not have known. but that shows that both of the poles on a single coil are not related.

[Joseph Upson]

if the gm system could not be improved upon, msd would not be in business, nor would accell, holley, or any of the others.

You better do some more market research. That may have been true in the beginning but in this day and age aftermarket options in several cases are nothing more than cashing in on a name brand reputation. Case in point, many aftermarket parts are exactly the same because they're made by one manufacturer and distributed under several different labels. MSD, Accell, Holley and the like all are jockeying for market share and in true consumer fashion just as you doubt GMs claims about their own products, the unsuspecting public thinks that because one of those aftermarket names is on the product it must be good. 90% of the Fiero forum knows that the best ignition module on the market for the 2.8L in the Fiero is AC Delco. The other 10% haven't figured it out yet and keep replacing them with "other".

Many of the upgrades we make when you think about it are more "just in case" or "just because" without a calculated need. Bump the price up $10, place a sale sign next to it and people will buy it unassumingly. High output, extra spark, reduced resistance and so on provokes the same response. All of the aftermarket companies do it, note how hard it is to find data as proof of their claims and people that lack your knowledge (most) might not be able to decipher specs with different units of measurements or changes that are minor in nature, or a technically different way of saying the same thing, to realize two items are basically the same but, from two different manufacturers.

Doesn't it tick you off that you can't walk into a store and know what the best toothpaste on the shelf is? or of most everything offered for that matter.

[MidnightriderZ24]

i can get the ms to controll the coils, theres just a little bit more involved with it. i want it for the spark energy, im worried about spark blow out at high rpms with the cylinder pressures. plus itll look cool haha

[gectek]

i would invest in an msd system then, because even if you use the truck coils, you will still have to lower the gap so you dont blow it out AND when you do that, it will automatically lower the output of the ignition system. that is just fact. when measured with a DSO, the LS style system will not put out any more than the normal system, unless you happen to get a wire set with very low resistance. that is why you need a better CD system to build up more charge than normal. the msd goes static after a certain rpm, but that is not the first reason to buy it. you do it to boost the secondary output.

[gectek]

You better do some more market research. That may have been true in the beginning but in this day and age aftermarket options in several cases are nothing more than cashing in on a name brand reputation. Case in point, many aftermarket parts are exactly the same because they're made by one manufacturer and distributed under several different labels. MSD, Accell, Holley and the like all are jockeying for market share and in true consumer fashion just as you doubt GMs claims about their own products, the unsuspecting public thinks that because one of those aftermarket names is on the product it must be good. 90% of the Fiero forum knows that the best ignition module on the market for the 2.8L in the Fiero is AC Delco. The other 10% haven't figured it out yet and keep replacing them with "other".

Many of the upgrades we make when you think about it are more "just in case" or "just because" without a calculated need. Bump the price up $10, place a sale sign next to it and people will buy it unassumingly. High output, extra spark, reduced resistance and so on provokes the same response. All of the aftermarket companies do it, note how hard it is to find data as proof of their claims and people that lack your knowledge (most) might not be able to decipher specs with different units of measurements or changes that are minor in nature, or a technically different way of saying the same thing, to realize two items are basically the same but, from two different manufacturers.

Doesn't it tick you off that you can't walk into a store and know what the best toothpaste on the shelf is? or of most everything offered for that matter.

i do doubt that it is AC delcos idea in the first place. remember just because it says MSD on it, doesnt mean it is made by msd, and just because it says delco, doesnt mean delco produces it.

just like a fuel pump. most of the time, replacing a crappy ac delco brand pump with another ac delco pump is better than replacing it with anything else, even a "delphi" branded pump. is it that ac delco is better? maybe. are the other pumps made the same? probably. is everyone perception skewed on this fact? probably. you dont buy alot of products for what they ACTUALLY DO. you buy alot of stuff for psychological HP, peace of mind, and brand loyalty. if half the people out there would read the ac delco spark plugs, they would realize that they were made by NGK. also i know that alot of companies make things better than the gms. take a look at the TAC module. dorman makes a brand new module that kicks the ac delcos ass in reliability. to think that the OE makes something infallible or better than the other companies that specialize in it, or just make it for GM rebranded, isnt true.

[MidnightriderZ24]

ok well enough shitting on the thread. simple fact: more spark energy (from the ls truck coils), means greater plug gap. Less blowout of spark plugs, more burned fuel = more power. period. the reason i said TRUCK coils was the fact of their built in heat sink for more durability, easier to come by, plus theyre CHEAPER.

[gectek]

im not so sure on that, but whatever you want to do, it is your build.

[gectek]

def interested to see how you are going to mount them.

[Joseph Upson]

ok well enough shitting on the thread. simple fact: more spark energy (from the ls truck coils), means greater plug gap. Less blowout of spark plugs, more burned fuel = more power. period. the reason i said TRUCK coils was the fact of their built in heat sink for more durability, easier to come by, plus theyre CHEAPER.

I don't believe gectek thinks much of GM OE anything given his remarks so far about some of GM technology use whether they invented it or not.

It would be nice to see more pictures in your thread instead of links, I hate popups. Your 5 angle valve job actually looks more like bigger valves and be sure to post detail on how you proceed with the CPP setup. I recall reading somewhere that it really isn't that difficult though I'm beginning to favor simplicity more and more since I intend to use my car as a daily driver far away from home and generally don't want problems period.

I don't recall whether I've said it already or not but I believe I have the same H beams that you have. I recently discovered that the small slot located at about the 11 o'clock position on both sides of the 3900 connecting rod is apparently serves as an oil squirter or because of its width an oil slinger. I was looking at videos on youtube and saw one regarding adding an oil squirter to Porche connecting rods and it was basically a small slit in the same location. That's how I discovered what the little notch was for. When I have my chevy rods narrowed I'm going to instruct the machininst to make a slit similar to what was shown in the video, maybe there will be some degree of oil pressure in the crank to rod groove that might make it more effective than it is currently if the slot is narrowed down from its current ~3/16" width.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wuNuuEoN7Y

[gectek]

i think gm has alot of good products. they are not the end all be all. so i dont take it even more off topic, alot of the things auto manuf do are for diff reasons. it is always a sacrifice for them to make something that we will want. they are not the best system, nor the worst. i work with everything GM all day long. i know a little more about what is going on than most people even in a dealership.

[Rarestace]

Hey man i just finished reading the whole 16 pages and i must say you have done an amazing job good work and i cant wait to see what you do next again keep up the good work

[asylummotorsports]

I'm still of the opinion it is hard to improve upon the GM Ignition systems.

It's actually one of the few things that are really good at!

If you are buying actual OEM spec parts, you will never have an issue IMHO!

If you want "pretty" then MSD/ACCEL and take Off-Shore whatever.

I beat on my car alot and I'll take reliabilty over "pretty" any day!

[MidnightriderZ24]

got some more stuff ordered. got my cell (foam filled with sender), fittings, -8 feed an hose, 1/2'' aluminum for feed, 3/8'' aluminum for return, aeromotive regulator allowing me to dual feel the rail, dual fuel filters. got the fittings and hose to run braided coolant hoses. still waiting on injectors, and pump to get here.. hopefully tomorrow it comes so i can rip out all the factory plumbing and plumb in the new system!! sorry for the delay.. full time tech doesnt give much ambition to work on my own vehicles lol..

http://s433.photobucket.com/albums/qq53/cavalier3400/?action=view&current=turbobuild032.jpg&newest=1

http://s433.photobucket.com/albums/qq53/cavalier3400/?action=view&current=turbobuild033.jpg&newest=1

http://s433.photobucket.com/albums/qq53/cavalier3400/?action=view&current=turbobuild034.jpg&newest=1

[Nick-G]

I don't remember if it was mentioned before but what fuel pump do you plan on using?

[MidnightriderZ24]

i wanted to go with an aeromotive a1000, but ive heard some good things about an obx external pump. i know some ppl who have had it for years on a dd, so i think im gonna give it a try. obx pump is 200 bux vs the 375 aeromotive.