Just my luck...

[IsaacHayes]

I wonder if the bigger 3500 dampener helps with higher RPMs of those motors?

If the 3500 dampener will clear the external crank trigger and fit the timing wheel on it Dave could run it. He doesn't need the 24x ring so that's a plus.

[Joseph Upson]

The 3500 balancer is a little larger in diameter than the 3400 balancer, however that may only serve the purpose of slightly increasing rpm of the accessories at idle for better alternator output and water pump flow. For example, there are two different diameter alternator pulleys for the late model engines I discovered while looking for a replacement.

Superdave is in uncharted territory with this engine other than what he has experienced. Only the VVT engines get factory fuel cutoffs of 6400 rpm, the non VVT 3500 is limited to 6000. I would seriously consider the VVT motor oil pump upgrade, and maybe a balance and definately a switch to Mobil 1 synthetic since that's what GM puts in its high revving engines.

[Superdave]

I was running Mobil 1 synthetic when the bearing spun

what's the difference between the VVT and non VVT oil pumps?

i have mine out right now if you want to compare part numbers..

[gectek]

well since i work at a gm dealership i can get part numbers anyway

[kflo 93 gt]

This is super expensive, but perhaps the best of both worlds for crank pullies?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATI%2D917190&N=700+4294924385+4294908153+4294908149+4294840048+115&autoview=sku

The shipping date sucks though, as does the price. I wonder if it could be had cheaper anywhere else...

[gectek]

well if he isnt using the timing ring, it might work, but they sure wont work on the 3400 engines that use the tone ring on the back of the balancer...

[Superdave]

that's for RWD configurations, it has no spot for the belt..

[Wiz85]

Yeah I was going to say the same thing, no place for the belt. I too was worried about the UDP because in it's description it say its 1 lbs and stock is 5 lbs. Well I figured stock weight of the balancer is that much for a reason. As the article link said, sometimes heavier dampers are better for power.

[Joseph Upson]

I was running Mobil 1 synthetic when the bearing spun

what's the difference between the VVT and non VVT oil pumps?

i have mine out right now if you want to compare part numbers..

I don't have one for viewing right now, I just know the oil pump is larger than anything I've seen on any other motor. It covers a larger area. I didn't recall anything unusual about the 3500 pump when installing the reluctor ring but noticed the 3900 pump was bigger right away.

Someone should try and test an oil squirter to find out what the opening pressure is.

[gpse3400]

A pump is a fine art to match. You dont run a bigger pump unless you have a reason to such as for loose clearences, turbocharger, extra oil passeges(Twin Cam). Since the VVT has that cam adjuster, it may need a differnt pump to be speced out. One thing is sure if you run an HV HP pump you will jack the pressure up to over 80 psi when you are winding out. That is no good for power or your bearings as you'll wash them out. Not to mention you will chew up the oil pump drive. The bearings are not black and blue so oil pressure is not the problem.

[3400-95-Modified]

that's for RWD configurations, it has no spot for the belt..

The pic is not specific to the item, its a generic pic of the ATI units... Its application is widespread to FWD 2.8's to 3400's so I'm assuming it HAS to have the spot for the belt...

Call up ATI direct and see what they say.

hell it has this application on the list...

Make CHEVROLET
Model BERETTA
Submodel Z26
Engine Type V6
Liter 3.1
CID 189
Engine Size 3.1L/189
Beginning Year 1994
Ending Year 1996
Engine Family GM V6

Its gotta work.

[Joseph Upson]

A pump is a fine art to match. You dont run a bigger pump unless you have a reason to such as for loose clearences, turbocharger, extra oil passeges(Twin Cam). Since the VVT has that cam adjuster, it may need a differnt pump to be speced out. One thing is sure if you run an HV HP pump you will jack the pressure up to over 80 psi when you are winding out. That is no good for power or your bearings as you'll wash them out. Not to mention you will chew up the oil pump drive. The bearings are not black and blue so oil pressure is not the problem.

Without actual testing to get to the bottom of the issue everything said here is speculative. One fact I do know is that the stock 2.8L Fiero ran stock oil pressure near 80 psi. The larger oil pump in the VVT engine has just as much if not more to do with the addition of 3 oil squirters, otherwise I would expect the 3.6L to have an oil pump twice as big since it has 4 cam phasers.

The points you make are understood without being said thanks to the level of knowledge nearly all of us have regarding the subject.

Here is an engine that appears to be running on the early series oil pump, with the addition of an oil squirter that serves as a pressure reducing/limiting source, that is being spun 1000 rpm above what it was designed for over 6 crank pins that are larger than previous design calling for more oil to cover the additional surface area. Larger crank pins potentially generate more heat due to increased relative rotation speeds.

I could be wrong but it sounds like a reason to address the oiling system somewhere, especially if that pump is near its capacity at the stock 6000 rpm limit.

Is there absolutely no chance that the pump is not sucking air? or that oil in the pan is being sucked below a safe level?

That has been a problem with a high volume pump and should be equally possible with a standard pump being run well above typical rpm. True the 3.6L spins to 7K, but it is sure to have a different top to bottom drain back rate than the pushrod motor.

Here is a good read, check out the chart showing 46 psi oil pressure at 6200 rpm with 0W30 Mobil 1 synthetic;

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/synthetic_vs_conventional_oil/index.html

[gectek]

def a different looking pump...diff pns...diff looking pickup...i would just shim the pump and make it put out more pressure...say 5 or so

[gpse3400]

Without actual testing to get to the bottom of the issue everything said here is speculative. One fact I do know is that the stock 2.8L Fiero ran stock oil pressure near 80 psi. The larger oil pump in the VVT engine has just as much if not more to do with the addition of 3 oil squirters, otherwise I would expect the 3.6L to have an oil pump twice as big since it has 4 cam phasers.

The points you make are understood without being said thanks to the level of knowledge nearly all of us have regarding the subject.

Here is an engine that appears to be running on the early series oil pump, with the addition of an oil squirter that serves as a pressure reducing/limiting source, that is being spun 1000 rpm above what it was designed for over 6 crank pins that are larger than previous design calling for more oil to cover the additional surface area. Larger crank pins potentially generate more heat due to increased relative rotation speeds.

I could be wrong but it sounds like a reason to address the oiling system somewhere, especially if that pump is near its capacity at the stock 6000 rpm limit.

Is there absolutely no chance that the pump is not sucking air? or that oil in the pan is being sucked below a safe level?

That has been a problem with a high volume pump and should be equally possible with a standard pump being run well above typical rpm. True the 3.6L spins to 7K, but it is sure to have a different top to bottom drain back rate than the pushrod motor.

Here is a good read, check out the chart showing 46 psi oil pressure at 6200 rpm with 0W30 Mobil 1 synthetic;

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...oil/index.html

Well the bearing damage is not speculative. Also a stock 2.8 running 80 psi really is dosen't sound right. GEN1, 2, and 3 (sans Turbo 3.1, and 3.4 TDC) should run 60 PSI at factory operation range with 40 nominal. Could have a bad sender/gauge, bad regulator, or someone slipped in an HVHP pump in it. As far as the oil squirters and VVT actuator, like I said other oil passages, etc. need to be accounted for and its all in the design.

Finally the 3.6...I don't really understand why it is even on this site as that motor is a completely different animal. The oil pump like everything on that motor is just way different.
__________________

[Joseph Upson]

I do believe I've discovered the problem. After removing the bearings from a rod I'm going to have weighed at the post office, I noticed the notches in the rod for the bearing locking tang are nearly non functioning because instead of a notch in each side of the bearing circle there is a groove that goes across each end of the half circle butting area. In other words there is no ledge on the opposing half of the circle for the bearing tang to press against to resist its rotation under extreme load unlike that seen in the older rods where you have one half notch in the cap and a half notch in the rod side. I'll post pictures later.