is there anyway u could use 3.8 pistons in a 3400?

[ForcedFirebird]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3800 has a bore size of 3.7", the 231 "3.8" has 3.8", and the 305 has a 3.736". This means the 3800 pistons will take less work to make fit, but are there as many options for forgings as the LD5 (3.8 turbo)?

Either way, many people have bought forged pistons from various mfgr's in various compression configurations, so they are available.

[geldartb]

ive thought about buying a 3800 powered car for the aftermarket on engine parts but i cant bring myself to buy one.
i want a 2000+ up until they changed the body style monte carlo ss with the 3800 sc but yeah i dont know.

[Superdave]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3800 has a bore size of 3.7", the 231 "3.8" has 3.8", and the 305 has a 3.736". This means the 3800 pistons will take less work to make fit, but are there as many options for forgings as the LD5 (3.8 turbo)?

Either way, many people have bought forged pistons from various mfgr's in various compression configurations, so they are available.

3800 has a 3.8" bore

[ForcedFirebird]

3800 has a 3.8" bore

Was that the 3300 that had a 3.7" bore then?

[montess408]

no the 3500 has 3.700 if i remember right the 3300 has the same pistons as the 3800 it's just a shorter stroke

[Superdave]

Was that the 3300 that had a 3.7" bore then?

Yes

[no_doz]

if indeed this engine does not have sleeves-could 305 pistons be used if the block was bored out .120? or would this require a sleeve? also if i was to indeed use a 3500 head & 2.8 crank-would that change the compression any and would the computer need changed as well as spark/cam timing? or can they be installed with only a change in injectors and or cam?

[ForcedFirebird]

You could do like the SBC 454's do, and fill the passages to bore that much.

Thanks Dave. I wiki'd it but never came back to edit my post lol.

[gectek]

if indeed this engine does not have sleeves-could 305 pistons be used if the block was bored out .120? or would this require a sleeve? also if i was to indeed use a 3500 head & 2.8 crank-would that change the compression any and would the computer need changed as well as spark/cam timing? or can they be installed with only a change in injectors and or cam?

there is not "if in fact" it is fact...The good ben spoke earlier on that...and why the hell would you want to bore it .120...either get the 3500 non vvt which allows more power potential or get the 35/3900 vvt that does the same thing. if you have the motivation to use to backward ass way to get displacement, then you should have plenty to use the newer engines. seriously there is an aftermarket for the 3400/3500 and the newer engines, it is just a little more custom and you have to pay a little more and look a little harder. the only reason the 3800 has so much aftermarket is because of the SC and the fact that it is a really popular engine in australia. yella terra is an aussie company, they are the only reason that the 3800 has any performance rockers or timing chain sets.

and yes that would change compression, if you used the 3500 heads on a stock 3400 block, the cr would go from 9.5, 9.6 all the way down to about 8.9, then shorten the stroke, wayyyyy lower than that. you would need alot different custom pistons, and maybe a longer 6" SBC rod????i havent looking into destroking in a while, maybe a longer rod

and if you chaged all that, expect a complete computer overhaul... plus injectors, intakes, then a wideband, headers to make the most of the new breathing engine, as well as lots of time dedicated to working overtime to make the money to feed the car is high octane, while you eat ramen while tuning at 3 in the morning. If you do build an engine like that, expect to spend a good amount of money and time married to the project. if you have a gf, dump her unless she can turn a wrench or drive a pickup with a trailer for when you get something on the car wrong...

[no_doz]

i didnt say "if in fact" i said if indeed-since i got 2 different answers & i dont know whos right-and being kind of a jerk about it isnt necessary-right now im just throwing ideas around-just trying to look at things objectively & trying to think of things that havent been done over and over again. also-id figure getting the 3500 vvt & putting it in would be VERY expensive-i would figure several grand for the engine & then god knows what else to put it in-different tranny-?? also what kind of power do these engines put out & what do they come out of? seriously u dont have to get angry & sh***y with me because you dont like the hypothetical question i asked-im just looking for knowledgeable answers from people i trust to have them-which from my experience is you good folks. but being nasty about it is really not necessary by any means.

[Superdave]

the 3500 non-VVT can be had for around $400-$600 depending on the miles..

i got mine for $610 with under 700 miles on it 2 years ago.


no doz, what they're trying to say is tht it's not worth the money and effort to build up a large bore short stroke engine the way you want to, in the end you'll have a pile of mis-matched junk and be in the hole 5 grand or more.


why do you want to do this so bad anyways? research this all a bit more, all the 60 degreeV6's use the same tranny bellhousing, all the power specs for the VVT and non VVT engines are out on the net.. use google

for the record, near 350 crank HP on 89 octaine with a stock 3500 (non-vvt) bottom end and getting 30+ MPG on the highway.

[gectek]

i wasnt being a jerk, just letting you know, everyone said the same thing. then you didnt see what you were looking for. if you look all the parts are there. most the info i put was to inform you, i was only SARCASTIC in some of it. i was being real with you, i wasnt laughing at you. there are some parts that will interchange, but why. yah the companies make a few more mainstream parts for the 3800, but it is heavier also, bigger and a PITA. if you want to know ask, but dont get offended when the answer wasnt what you were looking for. the 3500 NON vvt would come out of an 04-06 malibu, most monte carlos, impalas. the VVT is from 07 and up. the 3900 first came in the 06 malibu ss...but you would want to use the 3500 upper intake to take the tuning valve off the 3900. either way, look at spending alot of time, and a good amount of money to get anything done. search on here before putting up too many questions like you have...because they have all been asked before. This forum does not discuss the 3800 to much for a few reasons.
#1 its a different engine platform. #2 FTL67. #3 The 60* engines are actually still being produces(the 3800 is no longer made). #4 the 60* is lighter, has actual alum heads, and has the potential for better HP output.
Almost every question about 3800 engines parts/swaps/other being used, modified or anything else has already been asked and answered alot on here. just search. if you spend alot of time searching, you would have answered alot of questions. check out the motor articles, in depth and tech articles. they answer alof of ?s...

being an uber noob and not searching isnt necessary at all. everyone gets their bubble bursted on a daily basis, i did, you will, so will everyone else. instead of asking the same questions when you dont get an agreeable answer, take the answer and go from there.

seriously stick with the 60* engine, it wont do you wrong

[no_doz]

i never wanted to go any way but the 60-i just wanted to increase the bore-but i didnt realize that this 3500 vvt engine could be found so cheaply & that the power input was so good with good mileage in a lighter vehicle like the z24-knowing this that is definitely the route that id like to pursue-but what vehicle (year model make) do these 3500 vvt's come out of-will it bolt to the z24 trans-what could i do about motor mounts-& computer? thanks for your help fellas-and qectek-i appreciate your help-i just dont appreciate when people get kinda nasty & act like they are personally offended or irritated by a q i ask when its just a q & requires nothing of the sort. other than that-you guys always have been & continue to be a great help-thank you

[no_doz]

also-on searching a bit-is this 3.5vvt the engine they used in the 06 impala 3.5's? just noticed that motor & the stock power is rather nice as well as the stroke being that of the 2.8 & the same bore as the 350 in the 01 vettes-very nice! like i was saying is this the vvt engine or is this the non vvt one or is this a different engine entirely? also is it aluminum heads/block? (i would imagine so)-thanks for ur help guys-i learn something new every day. as a matter of fact-according to wikipedia the 3.5 im seeing is based off of the 3500-but with a 2.8's stroke-and even larger pistons than the 3.8-with other various improvements-which is very nice because that is EXACTLY what im looking for!! also it seems that the 06 malibu ltz had this 3.5 and with weighing over 3300lbs and with an auto trans gets nearly 30mpg highway & 20+ in town-sweet! on a much lighter vehicle with a 5 speed i cant wait to see the kind of power & pull offered & the mpg as well thanks guys

"The LX9 3500 is an OHV engine based on the 3400 V6. It incorporates electronic throttle control. Bore is 94 mm, stroke is 84 mm for a displacement of 3498 cc (213 in³). A GM Press Release for the 2004 Malibu described the 3500 thus: "3.5-liter V-6, will debut in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu. The engine offers improved performance and fuel efficiency, and runs smoother and quieter than earlier generation V-6 engines. The 3500 V-6 features an advanced powertrain control module, improved fuel injection system, a redesigned exhaust manifold and a new catalytic converter contribute to reduced emissions, as well as improved efficiency and performance characteristics. Improvements in cooling, sealing and the accessory drive system add to the engine's overall quality, reliability and durability." Power output ranges from 196 hp (146 kW) to 201 hp (150 kW), torque ranges from 213 lb·ft (289 N·m) to 221 lb·ft (300 N·m). This engine was retired after the 2006 model year, being replaced by the 3.5 L LZ4 V6 for 2007."

-pulled off of wikipedias gm high value engine listings


it also states the the 3.9 can shut off cylinders when the extra power is not needed in order to conserve fuel economy-in normal driving conditions would i get better mileage with this engine or the 3500 i previously mentioned? also is there much of a weight difference?

[Z26-T]

The 3500 you want is NON-VVT. It's the 3500 LX9. To put a vvt engine in it, either A, have to basically build a program/tuner that will work it (megasquirt has rumours of doing this soon, but don't bet on it). Or B. do some stuff to make it non-vvt... But your best bet is to just get a 3500 LX9 (non-vvt). It will bolt up to your trans, if you have a v6. It will not bolt up to your car. you will have to make motor mounts, then have fun doing wiring, sensors, and change throttle bodies, exhaust, coolant routing, etc. Not exactly a bolt in deal as all of us would hope.

If you do want to go the 3500 LX9 route, ask Dave to see if he made a write up on it. Then follow it word for word.

If I were you, had a 3.1 or 3100 would to put some 3400 UIM on it and see how much you liked that. If you did like it, either A, do the engine swap. Or B, build an engine using the same block, or 3400 block. A 3400 swap is the most common swap, most people have it down to a science. A 3400/3500 hybrid is becoming pretty popular. 3400 block, 3500 Heads UIM/LIM.